How to report bugs better

Friendly greetings! You’re reading the latest in a series of posts in which I’m covering issues of importance to our community. There are common themes connected in a variety of ways, and ultimately, this is a great opportunity to help indulge curiosities I’ve personally heard many times. So at least once a week, I’ll be sharing. 😀

Today, I’ve got some tips ‘n’ tricks on bug reporting — not an end-all, but hopefully enough stuff to boost your confidence using the Issue Tracker, especially if you’re non-technical and feel intimidated. Don’t worry. I understand.

For when you're too tired to drag a chair into the ocean.

^ That’s my avatar in a recent internal build of the WindLight viewer, snapshotted yesterday. What was I doing?

As calm as I may look in the middle of a large body of ripple water, I was prepping this post and making notes of bugs I’d observed to report later. (It’s post-processed a touch; you can see the original or make your own motivational poster.)

The first thing you should know, if you don’t already…
Where do I go to report a bug when I’m in Second Life?
Tools menu > Bug Reporting.

Tools menu - Bug Reporting - Public Issue Tracker

Please note we’re gradually moving more and more to the public Issue Tracker, so if having your bug open for discussion with visible progress is important to you, use Tools menu > Bug Reporting > Public Issue Tracker, not the ol’ “Report Bug”.

Check out the Quality Assurance Portal!
This is your one-stop shop to all sorts of bug-related info, including how we test Second Life to make it more reliable. That page has only been visited shy of 4,000 times, so I have a strong feeling we need to get the word out more… which is what I’m doing now.

There’s a lot to read and some exercises to try, so I encourage you to bookmark it for later.
Being a casual observer counts
Many of the bugs I’ve personally reported are ones I’ve noticed while the natural course of living my Second Life. It didn’t take any super-rigorous testing suites, altho we do those too. Just using Second Life as you normally do will tend to reveal problems we’ll want to fix.

I’m a frequent note-taker, and If I don’t have time to investigate a bug in greater detail yet, I’ll make a one-line reminder in Google Desktop to jog my memory later — any decent to-do program will work. The key here is writing down your observations and sharing them with your loved ones and friends in SL, to see if they’ve experienced the same bugs too. The Issue Tracker facilitates this.

After all, you feel a lot better when you’re not the only one.

Let’s talk about “repros”
If you’re new to bug reporting, you may’ve heard the term “repro”. What does it mean? In short, “reproduction”, a series of steps to make a bug happen again. And a “solid repro” is when you can reliably make the bug happen again and again. Our Developer & Quality Assurance Teams appreciate those, because like a good detective or doctor, it often gives clear clues into what’s causing a problem, and how to fix it. Which we all L-O-V-E.
My first bug report
Some of you are curious — so here it is. The very first time I ever filed a Second Life bug was on Sept. 30, 2004:

“Time Field” slow motion bug?
Friendly greetings! I’m not sure what to report this under. You have my coordinates and time, and I am VERY serious about this.

What happened was as soon as I entered Bonifacio, time suddenly slowed down (word wrap is working weird here too) and everything travelled VERY slowly, but very smoothly, like in The Matrix’s bullet time. It wasn’t lag. This also happened earlier today in the Welcome Area, and I don’t know what was going on.

I am standing next to [name excised], who I think is ghosted.

*blush*

This was before I worked @ LL; while I did the best with what I knew at the time, I failed to recognize that what’s being described here is “time dilation”, and while it’s generally undesirable and is indeed a type of server-side “lag”, it’s not something that can easily be remedied. I later learned this from talking with others and doing my own research.

I highly recommend searching the Issue Tracker before reporting a bug, to see if it’s already a “known issue”. Being aware of your inworld surroundings and being able to explain unusual events increases your understanding and enjoyment of Second Life.

Nevertheless, I didn’t give up that day, and continued to get better at reporting bugs. Which leads me to…
Learn from the examples of others
A strength of the Issue Tracker is all the info is in the open, which is a lot better than the “black hole” older style of reporting a bug to our internal systems only. You can see how other people write bugs, too, so you have a clearer idea of “Am I doing it right?”

There are many personal styles, and my basic bug repro format is adopted from Brent Linden’s. It’s like this:

– Step 1
– Step 2
– Step 3, etc.
* Observed: (what happens incorrectly)
= Expected: (what should actually happen correctly)

For 3 examples of me doing this for real, see VWR-896, VWR-1101, and VWR-1386. More nice repro examples from our QA Team are on our aging Support: Known Issues page.

Once you get the hang of it, it’s pretty easy.

Report bugs with friends
A good maxim might be: do what works for you, as long as a friend can understand it too. Bug reporting with friends is powerful, because it’s more fun than doing it alone, and they can suggest helpful hints. Especially when you care about the same issues, you can collaborate and make a better bug report than either of you could by yourself. Or if they’ve already filed an issue, leave a comment with additional knowledge.

I frequently ask fellow Lindens and Residents for bug-reporting tips so I keep improving. It’s like any worthwhile life skill in that the more you do it, the better you can get.
More important info we may need to solve problems…
On Issue Tracker comments or in support ticket replies, particularly if a repro is hard to come up with, we may ask you for such stuff as:

  • Crash logs
  • System config
  • SecondLife.log file
  • Fast Timers results (aka “colored bars”)

Confused what the heck those are!?

You’re in luck — I’ve made a fresh page for you, Debug Help! (Also linked from the QA Portal.) Feel free to link to it whenever someone asks one of those questions, saving time for all. Also feel free to edit the page and make it awesome.
What if English isn’t my first language and the Issue Tracker is too hard to understand?
Lovely question! Second Life is becoming increasingly international-friendly; you may know Residents like Alissa Sabre have been helping to improve the experience for non-English languages.

The Issue Tracker itself has an option to change its language. What you want to do is:

  • Login to jira.secondlife.com
  • Click “Profile” near the upper-right.
  • Click “Edit Preferences” in the left sidebar.
  • Change “Locale” from “English” to your preferred language.

Like this:

Change your language in the Issue Tracker's User Preferences

What about reporting bugs in other languages?
This is still a very new thing, and while we have a growing number of Lindens who are polyglots, to have your issue understood broadly, I’d suggest in the present, at least having a friend help you with an English translation.

A few more thoughts + feelings…
When I’m reporting bugs, I often find it helps to describe it like a story which has an unhappy ending (observed results) which I want to change (expected results). Injecting a sense of narration can help make bugs more memorable, fun to report, and improve the quality of your written communication.

When words aren’t enough, e.g., a building bug that involves visuals, it’s also useful to attach screenshots to an issue. (That’s also addressed in Debug Help.)

On occasion, I’ve also made video bug reports (like the one in SVC-94 which original reporter Lex Neva then watched and commented insightfully on), and while I haven’t done a tutorial on those yet, if there’s enough demand, I’ll do one, because I love sharing.

And remember, rock the vote!
Vote for issues you care about. All it takes is a click per issue, and you can vote for as many issues as are important to you.

Voting @ Issue Tracker

Not only does voting help show that you care, it also gives us a better idea of how many are affected by a bug, which guides us in setting priorities. Because there are many bugs, but many more Residents, and in so many ways, from content creation to feature development to bug reporting, Second Life is driven by our community.

Coming in the not-so-distant future, we’re also planning to expand the availability of our inworld Bug Triages so you can play a more active role in helping us identify what needs to be fixed, and learn from experienced Residents who’ve become experts at doing this. Watch this blog for forthcoming details.

So that’s a wrap for now, but I’ll be back next week with more practical advice to make your Second Life easier!

See you in Second Life,

torleylinden2fj

Torley Linden, Product Manager & more

About Torley

Who am I? See http://torley.com/
This entry was posted in Bugs & Fixes, Community. Bookmark the permalink.

72 Responses to How to report bugs better

  1. As yo your picture to what you were doing? you were dreaming of the day SL would be bug free!!!!

  2. Tailor Yalin says:

    I am relatively new to SL and absolutely love it!

    However i am having some major crashing and not fully loading issues. If I do a complete system restore, then run second life from a snap drive, the first time I run it … it just sings … i couldn’t ask for better. However, if i close SL and reopen it (from the snap drive again) not only does it remember me, but it doesn’t fully load until I resize the window. Also, I crash constantly. I am not able to get it to run accurately again until i do a complete system restore.

    So my question is … does SL place something in the registry or system files when it opens? I am thinking perhaps whatever this is may be my problem?

    Thanks for any advice you can give.

  3. Lex Neva says:

    …VERY serious about this.

    You’re very serious about everything, Torley, and that’s what we love about you! 😉

    Also, I feel famous now, with a mention, a link to one of my issues, and a picture of another.

  4. Danny Odell says:

    I like the picture Torey…When will we see the windlight viewer back on the main grid?

  5. Spikez Stine says:

    Heh, I’ve been using the ISsue Tracker for quite a while. Pretty neat, too! 😉

  6. Polly says:

    When I put my name and password into the log in spaces it doesnt let me log in because it says login failed!

  7. Harald Nomad says:

    The majority of reports seem to get “solved” without offering any solution.

    The in-world bug reporter directs you to the webbased reporter, and in response to a webbased report, you’re sent back to the in-world reporter. Am I supposed to report every possible bug three times?

    It pretty much has gotten to a point where residents, if serious about reporting bugs and wanting to see them fixed, now are required to spend hours per day to report, search, reply, and follow up. If not, the problem appearantly solves itself by getting a “closed” or “solution provided” status without anything being done.

    Of course not every bug is a bug, but not every reported bug is a “feature” either! Thinking back of the nice green bars in your recent chart, what percentage of that bar were closed tickets that shouldn’t have been closed?

    Secondly – and I totally appreciate the efforts made in getting more bugs fixed – wouldn’t it make sense to first test the fixes before releasing them? In general, fixes indeed fix the problem, but often generate one or two new ones on the side. That’s like running around in circles and making everyone (Lindens and Resis) crazy. Much lost time and frustration can be prevented by better checking what code gets broken by a new fix.

    A good friend of mine – one with many years behind his avatar name – claims that Lindens are re-introducing old bugs just to punish those who dare report a bug or express their frustration about existing bugs. Nah, don’t think so, but one sure can get confused…

  8. Matty says:

    Rather than rebuilding your world, what about fixing these bugs such as the crash on login, no IM’s being sent, not being able to cross into an neighbouring sim, not being able to TP to places????? Please fix the errors that prevent us from using second life rather than ‘redecorating’.

  9. Chronic Skronski says:

    The subject of this thread reminds me of “The Derek Zoolander school for kids that want to learn to read good and want to learn to do other things good too” for some reason. 😉 Very thorough, Torley – and helpful. And I would like to apologise in advance on behalf of my fellow residents who will likely skim through it without reading, attack your signature, insult LL, post their “fix the bugs first” mantra, and moan and whine in general.

  10. Lee Ludd says:

    Can I can say this here? I’ve used computers a long time. I’m not a dummy. I’ve written programs and designed websites.

    I find the “Jira” utterly incomprehensible. I have no idea how to find anything or how to post anything. I hate it. If the reason you’re supporting it is to limit the number of reports you get, you’ve succeeded.

  11. Ann Otoole says:

    Nice informative blog for those that actually read before jumping to the comments area to complain. I had no idea there was a QA portal till now.

    Keep up the good work.

  12. Sahtalus says:

    Thank you Torley…making the bug reporting somewhat easier for all residents will help LL fix the bugs, which also helps us residents enjoy the game with “eventually” fewer issues.

    Harold, I understand your frustration that fixes should fix issues, not create new ones. However, this has long been the nature of programming and it is usually not economical to completely test a patch to insure it doesn’t create other issues. I have yet to come across a program that is bug free, or one as complex as SL is that a patch does not affect something the programmers did not expect.

  13. Argent Stonecutter says:

    Jira is pretty friendly compared to some bug-tracking software. I’ve worked with quite a lot of it over the years, and written some, and you know something… some of the biggest names in the business, like Remedy, are bloody awful.

    I’m kind of surprised that you don’t use Bugzilla, though. Did y’all try it, Torley?

  14. U M says:

    I rather see a better easy way to report bug issues. I understand LL is trying to become more user friendly. But this is not the way to go about this.

  15. Dytska Vieria says:

    The hardest part I had with Jira was submitting my first bug report, I couldn’t find how to login, but that has been fixed and it is easier now.

    I wonder when FirstLight will be available for us to test? I miss it tremendously!

  16. Oz Spade says:

    Very nice post Torley!

    I try and follow the steps model, albeit a little more loosely than I should probably. This will help me out. 🙂

    I sadly can’t comment on Flickr because I forget my email or password (they forced me to switch to a yahoo login and I lost it now, d’oh). But I just wanted to say, I love the shadowing on this terrain: http://www.flickr.com/photos/torley/719943797/

    @2 And congrats Lex, celebrity for all the good reasons! 😀

  17. Great post, Torley. Jira does work – have had several bugs squashed since using it months ago. Of course, hoping for more ^^

  18. Wilhelm Neumann says:

    Hiya Im one of those that doesn’t get along with the bug tracker but honestly this is one of the few “issues” I have with Linden Labs the fact that you need to even write a manual so people can use the bug tracker makes it a problem. Bug trackers should be easy to use free of hassle and fast and make it so that people dont have to decide if they really want to go through the hassle of trying to report a bug. The tracker is time consuming and hard to use and not really conducive to encouraging the “average joe” with zero technical skills who comes to this game to play as a casual player or who uses Second life as an end application. The bug tracker is geared towards “technical types” and this says it all. So basically only a small percentage of users even reports bugs because of the system in place. It would be a lot better if a simple bug submission system was used (no voting just report the issue and click send is all that’s needed that most places use) I see no reason to make it so complicated its not helpful to “regular people” nor are half the bugs being reported in any volume because of it so the issues that get handles are only those that a minority of players votes on and even then they have to send group notices etc to encourage people to vote on them. I have never been successful in actualy creating a bug report from scratch or just finding one for a bug that I knew existed because of the layout and complexity of the system.

    I”m not an idiot either quite the contrary although many people think i am one it doesn’t mean I am dumb, stupid or retarded in fact i’m at the other end of the scale however I’m not willing to spend up to an hour submitting a bug or searching for one so I dont report bugs and only vote on the ones presented to me. I also dont promote the bug tracker because its such a convoluted and cryptic system I dont see why I should expose people who are not “technical minded” to it. IN conclusion you will only get the “technical minded” who have time to spend on submitting a bug because of the way the system works. This system is not for the average user who has enough difficultly figuring out the complexity of SL on the actual servers. Now a bug tracker that is hard to use is added.

    😦

  19. Aromadon Enoch says:

    And allow me, on behalf of all the customers who have been thoroughly screwed by LL and no longer feel compelled to give them any benefit of the doubt, to apologize for Chronic and all the other sycophantic ass kissers who would praise LL even if they stole every cent of their life savings, locked their account and filed lawsuits against them.

    People, it’s time to quit licking the hand that continually slaps you. You are PAYING for access to SL, not to be 4 year beta testers. SL if majorly *#&$^# up, LL has NO business or CS model and there is no excuse for continuing to act like this is all “OK” and part of being a “massive” undertaking.

    ALL work on development should STOP until the grid is STABLE and all identified bugs are CORRECTED (without creating 15 more in the process).

    Any company that didn’t rely on idiots with money they are willing to continue to throw at it (as LL seems to have found in quite a few of its customers) that conducted itself as LL does would have been bankrupt years ago.

    WAKE UP, people, and unpucker those lips….

    Sheep, meet wolves…. Wolves, sheep meat…..

  20. Torley, thanks for your continued communication with the Community, it really is a wonderful thing you are doing.

    Harald, thanks for not mentioning my name…oops..nevermind

    I don’t really think Linden Lab is re-introducing OLD bugs to piss me off, but how is it, that over a year ago, we had a fix for LINKED sets of PRIMS suddenly going out of connection with their neighbors, and then a month ago, this bug re-surfaced? If I were a betting man, I would bet someone pulled the wrong version of the production client and didn’t realize it, but then, in doing that, you would have totally screwed up your library, here’s a thought Torley, has anyone checked the Library reports lately to be sure someone didn’t accidentally use the wrong code about a month or so ago?

    Overall, I will say this, I have been happy with how Linden Lab is responding NOW to the community. It was upsetting though to have to get so frustrated and angry just to see that happen. I’m thinking that pissing off your customers just because YOU don’t think enough people are complaining is a bad thing, actually I know it is, I’ve attended the Fred Prior seminar on Customer Service, and if you all at LL haven’t, you should 🙂

    As for BUG Reporting, to be honest Torley, I’ve given up on it. The LAST bug I reported took 8 weeks to get fixed, even though, the ticket was shown as “Solution Provided” only days after reporting. The “Solution Provided” was simply, “Looks like you found a real bug”. I’m not much of a wordy guy myself, but that explanation was sad 🙂 I actually figured out a work-around for the problem, but chose NOT to edit my ticket because as LL was concerned they had provided a “Solution”, no matter how POOR the Solution happened to be. Now, when I run into bugs, I find a Linden Online, report it to them, and when they ask if I will report it, I state in the nicest way, “Sorry, it’s not my job as a resident to report bugs. You work for Linden Lab, you go mess with the bug-tracker.”

    Until Linden Lab can provide an EASY and certainly better way of reporting bugs and getting answers about those reported bugs, well then, I’ll just let you Lindens handle JIRA and the TRACKER, as for me, I’m not going to take up my time doing your job.

  21. Cherry Czervik says:

    ROFL

    You should be sending info on how to bug report to developers. I’ve heard some dire tales of bugs reported from industry friends.

    The bugs/deve side of things seems to me to be bedding in well (let’s proactively state before the bunch of ‘fix the bugs before you add new features’ that will follow with “Folks, sometimes groundwork needs to be in place for future things that might make NO sense right now – can you plan rollouts better? No? STFU then!”)

  22. Cherry Czervik says:

    13)

    Annoying as it is when old bugs resurface (and ask anyone who knows me how much I carp about it) – this is what happens. Simple. And the same bug might not actually be linked 100% to what it was before, or even if it is then some new parameter has upset the apple cart again. It happens at our place too.

    /me goes back to complaining about all the other stuff I complain about instead 🙂

  23. Juliet Ceres says:

    If you honestly think people are going to READ through ALL OF THIS, you’re delusional, Torley.

    I’m pretty techy myself and I’ve used JIRA before but even I won’t read all of that stuff because it’s just TOO MUCH INFO.

    Write a few shorter Posts about the process. Split it up.
    Average people will just ignore your post. And you want these to understand how to report bugs so give it another try, please.

  24. Dirk Felix says:

    Why would we need tips and tricks for bug reporting? I would prefer transparency, not the kind with alpha channels. Torley, can you start a satisfaction poll with an independant 3rd party?

    “because like a good detective or doctor, it often gives clear clues into what’s causing a problem, and how to fix it. Which we all L-O-V-E.”

    Unless your a real MD that relies on science, please dont try to put yourself, QA or others in the same category. 😉

  25. Tegg B says:

    Good post Torley, some cool info there, but I think many of us somewhat computer savvy people still find Jira a pain to use especially for dumb simple “this sim needs a restart” or “this sim is being crashed by griefers replicating cubes”.
    I find sims with problems now and newer people running in circles panicing, and now it’s easier to tell them to go elsewhere and I do the same myself.

  26. Da5id Zsigmond says:

    Definitely an interesting issue all around. I too share many of the basic feelings of the previous comments re the complexity of the jira. I also have been dealing with computer software and hardware a long time and at first found it totally obtuse. I have no illusions about what a non experienced user would face. However, I have begun to get a handle on it and am finding it a much more direct way to interface with our Lindens on specific issues. If you can take the time to figure it out I think its worth it. As are the forums – there you have a more digestible discussion between folks and pick up a lot of information such as that certain script commands haven’t worked for the last few months.

    I do feel for the folks who are developing this platform that we all found so addictive its worth the time to rant about it. When looking at any one particular bug or issue the factorial combination of all the different possible interactions of avatars, scripts, inventory, physics, html, etc. … makes it fundamentally impossible to fully test until you release it. Why they like the totally repeatable bug. It’s the intermittent problems that take years off your life.

    All of us who play?live? in second life have to get our heads around the fact that it will never be any different if the Lindens keep working on developing the world we want. What they need from us is the info!! And yes they could be better at getting it. Considering that the vast majority of the possible SL customer base are not there for the development of software but the experience, a much more intuitive and outside the box way of reporting that things have gotten odd would be smart. With SL we’re entering a realm where chaos theory has more relevance than the typical linear programming paradigm a particular appiication would have – and look at all the bugs they manage to generate. In SL you can set your draw distance to a kilometer and then file multiple bug reports about lag when you teleport.

    I do think the Lindens should look at better utilizing – and rewarding – the expertise and energy that is out there. Many of us have different specific areas of concern – I rarely deal with physics or monetary transactions but I do a lot of building and scripting and have tried to do as much with inworld sound as anyone. If there was something in it for me (SL is a capitalist metaverse) I would be happy to spend the time thoroughly checking out the aspects of a prospective new release that I have particular expertise with.

  27. Celierra Darling says:

    Bob Bunderfeld – it doesn’t sound like what you used was the bug tracker at all! There’s no such thing as “Solution Provided” in JIRA. Unless you meant “Resolved”, which doesn’t mean “Solution Provided” (though people misunderstand it as such).

    (To all): I do think LL needs to non-technical-people-proof JIRA as much as they can, though – see https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/WEB-194 if you want to add comments or suggestions. (Yes, I understand the irony.)

  28. Fenleab says:

    I like rezzing a prim under water, giving it a float on water script, making someone sit on it, and then turning it physical xD

  29. helma koba says:

    I have crash everytime

  30. caroline ra says:

    @15…Hey I have the attention span of a goldfish and I read it through.

    Torley you are an absolute gem, thanks:)

  31. hehe nice Torley … now play nicely and give us all the latest Windlight client… 😉

  32. Cool advice, I remember my first bug report. It was ok but I was shy about it so set it to private and got told off by a dev. 😄 That wasn’t for SL though, it was to fix a typo in the /stats response on UnrealIRCd. Heheh. 🙂 😛

    I like your chair, Torley. 😀 ^_^

    I haven’t posted bug yet, I don’t seem to get very many problems with SL other than what it either due to my AV deciding to run or my Dad watching Internet TV at the same time down stairs, or just that I’m in a very busy area, at a busy time of day. 🙂

    C++ needs a createSecondLife() function IMO, it’d certainly make things easier for LL. 😄 😛
    I’m off to install the new viewer. 😮 🙂

    SDF

  33. Katrina Bekkers says:

    Thank you Torley. I deeply aprreciate your efforts at communication with the userbase. SL would be a worse place if you weren’t with us; yes, even on the other side of the barricade.

  34. landingnormandy says:

    But what about support? I posted a question about some abandoned land I was hoping would come up for sale/auction via the support system on the 20th of last month and still it hasn’t been looked at. And I notice under this box it says “Need help? Please visit our Support Page.” Hmm, no thanks, nobody’s home!

  35. Raul Crimson says:

    Thanks, Torley! Your advises are always useful.

  36. Kenny Stinger says:

    Be nice to See you fix My BUG i bought a 512 land not to long Ago That Went to govenor Liden not me !!! Not even fixed Yet SO WHATS THE POINT OF REPORTING BUG YOU DO NOTHING ABOUT IT !!!!!!!

  37. George Black says:

    #23, Just email Bjarne and ask. 🙂

    http://www.research.att.com/~bs/

  38. Gaea Niven says:

    Thanks for this post. Before I even finished reading it I’ve voted and commented on a bug that’s been bugging me for some time now. I’ve bookmarked a few of the pages and feel better informed, as well as, better able to contribute to the sl community. It wasn’t too long ago that there was an issue being spoken about in one of my groups but no one knew how to really put it out there for linden consumption. Now I know! Thanks again!

  39. Hadley Yoshikawa says:

    “Sorry, it’s not my job as a resident to report bugs. You work for Linden Lab, you go mess with the bug-tracker.”

    Actually, it is your job. As a programmer, if someone finds a bug and doesn’t report it, I don’t fix it. And before you say it…Stopping me in the hallway while I’m on my way to the bathroom is NOT reporting it.

    It isn’t just about the report. It’s about the bug being serious enough to pull me off something else to fix it. If it doesn’t bother you enough to fill out a bug report, it’s going to be classified as an annoyance, not a bug.

    Is that poor customer service? Not really. If I stopped another project and tried to dig back into an old one every time someone in the hall said “hey, I had a crash using _____” nothing would ever get done. Why? Because a crash isn’t necessarily a problem with my system. Usually it’s a problem with yours.

    Poor customer service (in any programming type environment) really doesn’t exist. Service is “poor” when you’re particular annoyance isn’t fixed NOW, as evidenced by the whining on comments, no matter how off-topic they are.

    I’m not directing this at any one person, more at an attitude in general. That attitude is one of “Something happened to me and I’m not happy, why don’t you stop everything you are doing AND MAKE ME HAPPY!?!?!?”

    That isn’t poor customer service. That’s poor customers.

  40. Diricial Dagger says:

    @26

    I think you may need to open a trouble ticket rather than reporting the issue as a bug; if you own land, you must be a premium member, and can thus access the ticketing system.

    Bug reporting is generally more for repeatable issues with the program experienced by more than one user, whereas your land purchase issue seems more like an event isolated to you. You will likely have more success getting your issue dealt with if you report it with a trouble ticket. As the wiki article for the Issure Tracker states, “The JIRA Issue Tracker is not for technical support-type requests.”

  41. sirhc DeSanti says:

    Thanks Torley its nice to be communicated with. And yes I have the attention span of a kitten and I managed to read it all. Appreciated. As for the jira I’ve coded in one form or another for 20 years and I have a hard time with it – but I’ll keep trying if you guys promise to pay attention to it 🙂

  42. Yaco Despres says:

    re: note taking

    i tend to take lots of notes, since my memory is not fully functional. for SL stuff i prefer to keep everything in-world, and i’ve found having one notecard (i call it ‘To Do’) handy in my inventory quite helpful. so i can just write down things to check later, ideas of stuff to build or mod, and bugses!

    it would be ideal to keep this notecard permanently open and minimized, but this tends to hide the last line of open text chat… my, that’s a bug! what am i waiting for?

    /me opens jira on another tab –firefox rocks!–, searches for ‘minimized chat’, finds VWR-447 and VWR-30 –both with patches! go go FOSS!–, logs in again (secure.sl.com -> jira integration bug?), votes, is happy 🙂

    yaco\

  43. Magnum Serpentine says:

    On many of my bug reports, I put down, as cause, I do not know Unknown. And then follows a brief description on how I noticed the bug and what are the results of the bug. Sometimes, like flashing walls, there is no clear way to re-produce the effect, just enter a room, any room, even at NASA sims and the walls start flashing.

  44. Amanda Ascot says:

    Thank you, Torley! Not everyone in Second Life has the time, or patience, to figure this out. I’m a very patient person, with most issues, anyway, and I did take the time to figure it out, although most of the problems I want to communicate are already reported by the time I get around to it. Some of us actually have First Lives, you know. A lot of the residents are completely baffled at the Jira, and it’s no wonder. This is not, for most people, a user-friendly application. Even those of us who are technically-knowledgeable and *want* help make Second Life better by helping to identify issues frequently have problems with it.

    I hope that your “tutorial” will get more people involved, although I’m sure many residents will still resist, either because they don’t understand after your explanation, or just because they don’t want to be bothered jumping through hoops. I’m sure that more people will get involved if we ever get a simple in-world method for reporting an issue to the Jira without ever leaving the viewer, especially since Second Life is such a resource hog that firing off another application can cause some machines to crash. Even so, identifying bugs, and especially reproduceable bugs, and reporting them in a clear, understandable way is not for the technically un-savvy — or the faint of heart.

    I really think we need a way to report issues casually: “I’m here in Leemington and sunk to my knees in the ground and can’t move. Oh, and the sky is red and there’s this loud buzzing noise coming from all around me.” That’s the way a lot of people seem to report issues, anyway, and those are easy to scan. It just won’t do any good if nobody who can actually make decisions about doing anything ever bothers to scan them. Now, understand … I have no idea at all how many such reports you would get in a day, and it’s possible that you would have to have someone monitor this 24/7 to make it an effective reporting tool, but this would be more of a “triage” service than a real bug reporting feature, putting the actual reporting in the hands of a person qualified to do it quickly and efficiently.

    Anyway, thanks, again, for your article — informative, and even entertaining, as usual.

  45. Bau Ur says:

    Thanks Torley, this was exactly the kind of note I needed. I’ve tried to use the JIRA to report and look at bugs and vote against bugs, and found it very cumbersome. I’m very glad LL is trying to make bug reporting and priority-setting work well.

  46. Yaco Despres says:

    @32: a tool like that could be combined with a voluntary triage service, ie an in-world group. i wouldn’t mind filtering proto-bugs and filing a couple of them when i’ve got some spare time in-world, and the voluntary way of doing things would work quite well for this. something like open-sourcing the bug reporting _process_. if some of us who can find our way around jira’s weirdness do this 10′ a day, lots of bugs would be added that would be much more helpful to LL staff and outside programmers. and if the proto-bugreport is already @ jira, we could just give the resident a url for her/him to vote it!

    btw: i’ll take the chance to say thanks both to you torley (great work!!!) and the lindens in general. i’m quite tired of the constant whining in blog comments, specially since i’m quite noob in some ways and find SL awesome (been waiting for something like this to ’emerge’ for about 15 years!), and the fact that it has grown so much in the last time without just vanishing under the load almost a miracle.

    so, congrats to all of you. keep on bugsquashing!

    yaco\

    ps: you may find a couple of free soft ‘tricks’ and social ideas interesting, like bug squashing partys, or sprints. it’s amazing how exponentially much more can be done by a bunch of hackers in a big room filled with computers, able to yell at each other.

    ps2: sorry for my monkey’d up english 😉

  47. zylonk says:

    What a cringe-making blog. Do you think this heralds the end of bugs or just another PR exercise?

    On second thoughts, perhaps the Lindens are being driven mad by the wacky software they have to cover for…

  48. Cat Gisel says:

    Speaking of bugs…folks in another world I visited used something called “retropatching,” and so old problems would seem to recur over and over because they took parts from older patches and reused them (bugs inside would tag along as well). I never understood the reason for this, even after others explained why it is done (except to save lots of typing). Older problems seem to recur as in SL (consider the current friendslist problems that came back a couple of weeks ago). Is this what is going on? If so, why?

  49. jackin kohime says:

    Hi,

    I have setup a new account and your website displayed the follow: but i have not recieved any email apart from one fro paypal detailing my account has been setup correctly.

    I also tryed logging in but no joy.

    Please advise.

    Many thanks
    Brad

    email: brad@catvision.tv

    ———————————————————————
    Welcome, Jackin Kohime!
    Your account HAS been successfully created, but an error occured processing your PayPal info– so we were not able to upgrade your account or award you free Linden Dollars.
    Your Second Life account has been sucessfully created.

    If you have any questions about Second Life or your new account please, visit our support page.

    Your Second Life Account:
    We have sent a confirmation email to brad@catvision.tv
    Please follow the instructions in this email to activate your account.

    Second Life name: Jackin Kohime

    Membership plan: Basic Membership

    ———————————————————————

  50. ligia says:

    Tem versão em portugues?

  51. Gala Alva says:

    (Comments closed on the new blog. I guess that fits in here better )

    Oh yea cool stuff, no more “adies pupils”.

    Anyhow, one thing that is extremly bothersome ( haven’t dl this viewer yet ), is the fact, that we are getting shut off after so many minutes not moving in world.

    I always had my settings in Character etc etc ( away/afk – unchecked ) and never went afk. I even changed now the settings in general to max 600.00.

    BUT, when i have SL minimized due to working in PS – I get a warning ” You are about to be logged off due to Inactivity”!
    Yet all the mule campers, since they are moving – never get logged off.

    What up with that LL’s? Did ya hook up with a old version of AOL?

    :/

  52. Hadley Yoshikawa says:

    In general, it comes down to this: Fixing one problem nearly always causes another. When the new problem is sufficiently bad (i.e. a massive memory leak) it is sometimes necessary to roll off a patch. Or, try to roll a seemingly working part of an old patch back into your refactored code.

    Further, merely reading through a contributed patch, it is nearly impossible to catch bugs that may occur. Indeed, testing before rolling out won’t always catch bugs. There are too many variations in system configurations for any automated test to try them all.

    Look at the randomness of viewer crashes. Some are plagued by them constantly, others never seem to have them. Is there a common thread? Probably. Will LL ever be able to track them down? Nope.

    Lag complainst are often the loudest here. There are ways to load-test a server (or grid or application), but they are almost always theoretical. Until you have actually rolled something to your full deployment server (or grid or application) you may not see the problems.

    Furthermore, it isn’t always easy to find that misplace/missing comma, parenthesis, curly brace, bracket, etc. As someone else noted, how often do you write something, proofread it, and then someone else finds a typo? It’s better to have multiple eyes look at it, but there needs to be a balance between not enough and too many.

    Software is a fickle beast. Lately it seems that LL is getting the Microsoft treatment…

  53. Hadley Yoshikawa says:

    I’m being much nicer today, so please….no IMs about what a big meaniehead I am.

  54. Dark Otsuzum says:

    if Viewer_Update = TRUE

    {
    llCameraArrows(Random_Zoom,0,0,0);
    llSetLag(Maximum)
    llFriendsList(BorkedAsUsual);
    llRandomCrash(enabled)
    }

  55. JayR Cela says:

    Hi ALL :_) /kiss kiss I love you all dearly
    here is a Web Address “” http://www.filehippo.com/ “” where you can get a few of the computer maintainance things I was telling ya about, along with some direct DL sites.

    1. CCLeaner 1.40.520 this is good for getting rid of lots of hidden Temp files and other things that build up and slow down your computer

    2.SpyBot Search and Destroy beta 1.5, a great anti spyware tool / it has an option for some automatic filtering called Tea Timer :(((( LOL don’t use it :_)

    3. AVG Anti Virus Free Edition / HoHo I have been using this product for so long I cant evan remember :_) highly recommended / oh on the automatic update download you may want to set to notify only 🙂

    4. Ad-Aware 2007 7.0.1.4 / very good at getting rid of pesky crap :_)

    OK at the bottom of the page is a section for Drivers / DirectX 9.0c (June 07) is a good thing to have – Microsofts lastest patchs & updates to the current DirectX graphics capibilities in the Window’s enviorment. I also see that the current video drivers from Nvidia & ATI are available ~ I don’t know if you have either one ?

    Next I would get A-squared Free / this lil gal will find things other programs seem to miss like Trojans and Bot’s “” http://www.emsisoft.com/en/software/free/ “”
    !! Use Full Deep Scan !! { very slow} 😦

    Ok next on my list is the Swiss Army Knife of freeware to keep your computer running properly stuff / Advanced Windows Care from “” http://www.iobit.com/ “”
    I especialy like the registry cleaner. I use this package every every time I un-install a program to get rid of little nasties left behind in the software removal process.

    Last on the list is the best damm hard disk defrag utility ever made for Windows, JKDefrag,
    “” http://jkdefrag.en.softonic.com/ “” nothing to install just run the executable program ( it runs in a console window ) and leave it alone, depending on how badly your disk files are cluttered, it could take a very long time for this program to complete its job.

    Ok ~ OK I know this sounds like a lot of shit to do in order to keep your computer running properly, and your right it is ! However I have thoroughly tested all of these programs for a number of years as have countless others. The all-in-one wonders like Norton & Symatec, can not evan compare to useing seperate dedicated programs designed for 1 task ( with the exception of IOBit’s Advanced Windows Care ) and it will take several hours of your time to go through the routine, but is well worth it to keep your computer running as smoothly as possible.

    !! I do-not recomend useing any of the automated scheduled or background process maintainance routines with any of these programs !!!! RUN Them MANUALY !!
    Another note many people have so much shit programs running in the background that it just is impossible for Windows XP to keep track of everything !! Look in the lower right hand corner of your screen ” HOW MANY ICONS DO YOU SEE ???? ” Dumbass if there are more than 2 or 3 you are an idiot !!!!!! these programs are automatically starting and useing resources every time you start your machine and compeating for resources !!! hence the constant complaint of Disk Thrashing while trying to run SL. do you want to get rid of them ?? of course you do ! Open a Command consule window “run”
    and type in “” msconfig “”
    this will present a configuration tool as to how Windows XP starts up GoTo StartUp tab and uncheck all the crap you do not need, If you are really brave check out the services Tab and you will find all kinds of stuff running that you do not require in order to run SL

    Furthermore when un-installing and re-installing SL on a Windows XP box be sure to open C:\ Documents and Settings\”” USER””\ Application Data\ SecondLife
    and blow that entire SecondLife directory out !!!!!!
    This will require that you reset all of your preferences upon reloading the game / but beleave me, it will git rid of all the nasties that LL somehow manages to leave behind with the standard Un-Install. You should also visit
    http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/
    and check out what this SL citizen is doing to make SL a better place. DownLoad his Open Source viewer and Taaa-Daaaa after above steps you will be running a wonderfull SL day without so many buggs

    JayR Cela
    7-6-2007

  56. jackin kohime says:

    Does any1 know how i can get support to logon?
    Cheers
    brad@catvision.tv

  57. Aromadon Enoch says:

    And allow me, on behalf of all the customers who have been thoroughly screwed by LL and no longer feel compelled to give them any benefit of the doubt, to apologize for Chronic and all the other sycophantic ass kissers who would praise LL even if they stole every cent of their life savings, locked their account and filed lawsuits against them.

    People, it’s time to quit licking the hand that continually slaps you. You are PAYING for access to SL, not to be 4 year beta testers. SL if majorly *#&$^# up, LL has NO business or CS model and there is no excuse for continuing to act like this is all “OK” and part of being a “massive” undertaking.

    ALL work on development should STOP until the grid is STABLE and all identified bugs are CORRECTED (without creating 15 more in the process).

    Any company that didn’t rely on idiots with money they are willing to continue to throw at it (as LL seems to have found in quite a few of its customers) that conducted itself as LL does would have been bankrupt years ago.

    WAKE UP, people, and unpucker those lips….

    Sheep, meet wolves…. Wolves, sheep meat…..

  58. Clinton Oddfellow says:

    Excellent post, Torley!

    There’ll always be those who’ll complain — I’ve a firm belief that they’d complain if they were hung with a new rope.

    Do you all think you could look into the speed of JIRA? pages take upward of 30 seconds to load, which is somewhat annoying when you’re trying to search issues in order to post one. If possible, can y’all look into speeding it up and making it more usable? I know I’d contribute more if such were the case 🙂

    Cheers!

    CCC

  59. Pingback: Official Linden Blog » Blog Archive Announcing User Interface Bug Triage Meetings «

  60. Pingback: iVinnie » Blog Archive » Announcing User Interface Bug Triage Meetings

  61. Thank you, Torley. As useful as ever, from begining to end. [Hee hee, thanks to it I even found out how to print screen on the Windows partition of my new MacBook Pro, something that was nagging at the back of my mind but I had not yet found the time to google :)]

  62. Pingback: Official Linden Blog » Blog Archive The JIRA Bug Triage Lowdown: A recap of the oldies and introducing Internationalization «

  63. Pingback: The JIRA Bug Triage Lowdown: A recap of the oldies and introducing Internationalization

  64. for two days i have not been able to log in. i keep getting told the regional hand shake failed. and i cant find were to report this. please help!

  65. Carolyn Saarinen says:

    Any chance of an internal post for LL called: “How to FIX bugs better”?

  66. Marie Boyau says:

    I’m having problems with like Television screens looking pink and then shopping around I sometimes see the same thing.

  67. LeCeecee Canning says:

    hey today i havent been able to log in. ive tried over 5 times through out the day. once its logging me in – already up to ‘contacting (or connecting) region’ it will crash….. like “what the?” its not like i am running any other programs for it to be crashing automaticly. <– it has been crashing automatically, not even in world yet, still in loggin process *sigh* hopefully i will recieve a reply i would really apprisiate it PLEASE & ty :/

  68. Lety Ferraris says:

    Please, I need your urgent help. I am not able to wear anything. My avatar keeps being naked all the time. So, I would like to know what should I do? Is it possible for you to help me, please? I am very worried about this, as I´ve heard about so many people hacking our accounts or other bad things. Or would it be a bug, which will be solved soon? Please, help me urgent.

  69. Pingback: Knowledge Base Article of the Week #6: The Public Issue Tracker « Official Linden Blog

  70. Surita Fargis says:

    Loved windlight the effects were amazing,, sunsets wow,, the water wow,,, stunning, New version al that has sadly gone, the only prob with windlight was the av s at a distents blocky not to good. Like the idear of new version due to me being in the world of BDSM, its all exsiting,,,,,, But my sand were i live in sl all smudgy latex looked so good on windlight now looks like im not wearing my trancparent one just look naked,,, my av cant wear skirts to me and ev one around im not wearing one not good when i have spent lots of L$ on outfits i can not wear now. i live in skirts and attached skirts so not good at all as i love my skirts and spent lots on them and im not only one it happend to another girl last night also with some of my skirts i had a transparnt bit around the carvs of my av, when skirt was a mini and it had a IM printed on it and the person i was with could read IM as i could, luckerly it was our IM to eatch other but this is not good. and an ask if possabel us girls sooo need more attachent points to out pelvis one more would be good but 2 even better i know u can change attch skirts to somewere diff but thay do not move right when u walk,, and we loss our xc attachment not good for us girls,,, thanks for reading.

  71. elena hutchinson says:

    hello my avatars name is elena hutchinson…. i have a problem. i am watching something things in red and they are not ..for example half of the windows are red and the other half is brown..i dont know whats wrong and i really dont know where to report it.. please help

  72. Maxine kohime says:

    hm, know I still dont have an idea how to use the “bug report”
    LOL

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