Día de la Liberación and Het-Grid

Very soon, Linden Lab will release Second Life version 1.18.0. As Zero posted about “Message Liberation”, almost all viewer updates will be optional, so you can download them if and when you want. Message Liberation lays the groundwork for a project known as “Heterogeneous Grid”, or “Het-Grid” for short. Het-Grid will provide Second Life a smoother transition between both small and major patch releases. We have understood for a while now that by having separate beta grids, we aren’t able to fully test new releases thoroughly. With Het-Grid, we will be able to release new server versions to small areas of the Main Grid for testing. This allows Residents on the Main Grid to beta test without having to connect to a separate grid.

Het-Grid will be released in steps. Linden Lab will have Step 1 ready to go fairly soon, but we are still defining what will comprise Step 2 and beyond. By gaining resident feedback through Step 1 of Het-Grid, we will be able to decide what features we should incorporate into Step 2 and up, and how those features should work. Here’s the current list of design decisions that matter to you:

Step 1:

* You can test our beta versions just by using the normal viewer, which will be both forwards and backwards compatible. This means you will be able to fly between beta and standard regions with minimal side-effects. If we need to upgrade the beta pieces of the grid, we will just push a rolling restart to those specific regions, and the rest of the grid won’t feel a thing.

* Areas which are running beta versions will be clearly marked for you. You don’t have to worry about Second Life becoming buggier than usual just because we’re running beta versions on the main grid. You will only see the effects if you actually wish to venture into those beta regions.

* Whether you are on the normal viewer or a beta viewer, you will be able to fly/teleport into and out of all regions you would normally be able to traverse on the grid. If you fly into a beta test region, you will be prompted with release notes for that version. If a viewer upgrade is available for that new version, you’ll be given the option to download it, and thus experience whatever new features that version gives you. If you prefer not to participate in Het-Grid, you will have the option to turn off notifications altogether, and thus Het-Grid will not affect your daily SL routine.

Step 2:

* If we’re ready to release a new version, we may only release it to a portion of the grid at a time in order to make sure that the code is stable. By doing this, we’ll be able to easily roll back those specific regions if a problem occurs with the new version. This also means that the grid-wide rolling restarts (the wave of death) you’re accustomed to will be implemented less frequently.

* If you are an estate owner, you will be able to select “version channels” that allow your regions to update to a beta version for testing. As an example, some channels would be “mainland,” “voice beta,” and “<INSERT SECRET PROJECT BEING ANNOUNCED SOON>.” You can then set a “deploy policy” of either automatic updates (your region will update as soon as a new version is released) or manual updates (your region will update to the latest version whenever you choose). This gives the estate manager control over their regions so that our updates don’t interrupt your business.

Keep in mind that none of these features will be released with version 1.18.0, but are made possible by it. These design decisions, which reflect our commitment to place version control in your hands for both your viewer and your estates, will be discussed at Zero’s office hours tomorrow at 1pm PST (located here). We can possibly hash out more tasks to add to Step 2 and even figure out good ideas for Step 3 and beyond. We need all the feedback we can get to ensure that we release versions that makes sense to you and versions that you’ll enjoy using. See you during office hours!

Edit: That’s 1pm PDT, not PST. AKA: Linden Lab time. 😉

This entry was posted in Bugs & Fixes, Development, New Releases, Operations, Resident Experience. Bookmark the permalink.

102 Responses to Día de la Liberación and Het-Grid

  1. Dirk Felix says:

    Setp 1, work on the platform

    Step 2, repeat step 1

  2. akagi says:

    lets hows this works

  3. Keiko Rau says:

    So, a single Heterogeneous Grid. A lot of residents (myself included) have suspected a merging of grids was in the works… Talk of adult flags, age verification… Why run three grids when you can just run one? Look out for those cage weapons in the PG areas. Its gonna be fun!

  4. Keiko Rau says:

    @1

    You forgot

    Step 3, profit.

  5. Echo Kinsella says:

    My experience tonight has been nothing but crash after crash after crash…could we work on that first. Gawd.

  6. Laser Pascal says:

    And now we see what LL have been working on behind the digital curtain! I’m happy to see that we’ll be freed from mandatory viewer updates, and hopefully from whole-grid downtime for same. Hopefully this will steamroll more bugs before wide release than before.

    Keiko Rau: it’s not a merging of teen grid and adult grid, it’s the integration of the beta grids into the main.

  7. Cherry Czervik says:

    Keiko has a point there. Yay! More citizens without fully formed social skills!! Yay!! (Thank god for Banlink).

    Otherwise this is good news. I have it on good authority though that the secret project is an ecological one where a great deal has been made with a recumbent bike manufacturer so that you can power your own PC by cycling. Save the environment, and stop us all getting fatter because we’re all GLUED to this thing no matter how well or badly it treats us. This project will be called Second Bike.

    See, you just watch.

    I do talk rubbish at times don’t I? : )

  8. Cherry Czervik says:

    @6

    Well that’s good to have clarified … I still

  9. Cherry Czervik says:

    eeeek! where’s the rest of that post? I still love Banlink!

  10. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    Reads good. Uhm, the current version of the viewer (the new one released yesterday) is very buggy. It’s almost impossible to work with it, since editing prims constantly leads to crashes. Will there be a new viewer today, or during the week?

  11. Master X says:

    We need more updates, because the crashes are more and more. Maybe too much people are entering day by day Second Life, so the Linden people must work hard. I think they will make it, doing it step by step. More steps needs for better work of Second Life.

  12. Cosette Lundquist says:

    While this does look like it may be of use. There are still problems on a very base level that should have been ironed out first.

    I, personally, am very sick of crashing (even after updates) when dealing with attachments that are made of sculpted prims..

    In any case, I really do wish you luck with this LL. If it works, you will have less unhappy customers, in some ways. If it doesn’t, it’s back to to off topic lynchings.

  13. Cosette Lundquist says:

    *Make that -any- prim.

  14. Katana Redgrave says:

    FIXES OVER FEATURES.

  15. Enibella Jewell says:

    As long as LL keeps us up and running I am all for it, now there are other issues that of course need addressing here, Hhhhmmm sems I have a laundry list of them, Aha! #1 crash on edit, #2 hair, shoe and jewelry wedgies in region crossings or TP, etc….

  16. Coventina Dalgleish says:

    Why don’t you keep it in the box past performance is a good indicator of your lack of ability’s in the area of successful updates. Your new masterpiece has given me new challenges. I am a builder of toys and it seems that when I access edit I have a 50 50 chance of piling into the desk top just “bam” back on the top. This is another PATHETIC example of how you fix bugs supposedly cure a few and create just as many, OR MORE, than before.

    Again I will state the fact that if this continues I will go to dinner on the money I spend with you and that is several nice meals at 5 star restaurant’s. At least there if I do not like the service they listen, and even kiss my ass to make me happy here I might as well loose fluids into the wind or scream at the sun for all the good it does

  17. Enibella Jewell says:

    If I may add an issue to my previous “laundry list” #3 Men looking like women when relog is needed. which brings me to #4 In game the differences of running XP vs Vista.

  18. barney says:

    Yay! Finally an easier beta testing without the need of an underpowered special grid where none of your friends are and you feel lonely and dumped 😉

  19. Finkel Flossberg says:

    Come on people… Read the post.

    The “Fixes over features”-statement does not make any sense in this context. As the post says, this will make thorugh testing easier/possible which it ain’t today.

    No fixes without testing – Thats the rule. Testing is THE only thing that ensures a fix. Without testing you rely on pure luck.

    So, give LL a break and try to understand where this is heading before you complain.

  20. barney says:

    Oh, and to those who complain about no bugfixes instead of features: a) they _do_ bugfixes galore (even though most of them nowadays are from the open source crowd, but that is a good thing!) – you _did_ n otice 1.17.1 changelist? And another thing: easier beta testing due to het grid will make future releases more stable, because it gets much more banging on, just because it’s easier to do things in it, without leaving the main grid (beta testing _and_ communicating with your friends will rock). And with het grid, they might even be able to just partialy upgrade the main grid and have staged beta periods (starting with a few test sims, then a part of mainland, then all of the grid for example).

    So yes, I think het-grid will be a boon for stability over the longer timeframe. Sure, there will be problems early on. But hey, we are used to them, right? 😉

    I for one definitely applaud this change and am happy that it comes quite a bit earlier than I hoped for.

  21. Tegg B says:

    Cool, all the anti-progress whiners will be able to go back to version 1.0 and stay there and when their Pentium 1 & freebie ADSL won’t run that anymore they won’t be able to blame LL 🙂

  22. Infy Medby says:

    I dounloadrd and tryed to install the new version and I get a bunch of errors abiyr cant open or right files and cant log on at all. If i try to log on it tells me to download and install it agen over and over. I am now lost.

  23. JayR Cela says:

    Good Luck your gonna need it, 1.17.1 is a dog, after no less than 20 crash’s and a number of other odities I rolled back

  24. Kenny Devoix says:

    I for one see this as a welcome feature.
    #1 it should lessen the down time
    2 let people use the viewer that works best for them
    3 let LL test releases under normal grid load to better evaluate how they actually preform.

    It seems that some just want to complain,because they complain about all the bugs then complain when LL uses down time and new viewers to try and fix the very bugs they are complaining about. Well this should solve a lot of that, this way the codes & bug fixes will be tested better under full load and those that do not want to see any changes can stay with their old viewer and not have to concern themselves with any new features or fixes.

  25. Katrin Smith says:

    Wow, all this new stuff and I still CANNOT BUY LINDEN’S…..not with Paypal not with a CC………..have tried to add CC several times with no luck.
    So let me see here……….you are upgrading again…Woo hoo but why bother……………..I CAN’T BUY LINDEN’S ………not at all.
    Oh well………..SL is really getting boring.

    See ya

  26. EBCY Clift says:

    Thanks for Second Life Linden Lab guys
    Whatever are the problems this world is just fantastic. I feel happy each time I come back and I meet B and my friends again.
    Keep on making us happy magic Slifers !

  27. Jayden B says:

    Hovertext is also missing in some cases, but as you can’t edit anything you can’t duplicate the problem.

  28. Dave says:

    Anyone who responds even slightly negatively to either of the posts regarding the liberation needs to get help.

    Grats on the epiphany LL, I love it when that happens.

    Normally happens to me while I’m on a smoke break. The answer just pops out when you step back for a minute or five.

    This sort of unbundling of critical systems from resources that need redownloading is just what the doctor ordered.

    Viva la revolution!

    Dave

  29. Sounds great from point of architecure and IT service deleivery.

    Noone in real world would accept that a new version of a operationg system can not coexist with the prior, and pilot groups in productive enviroment are a well known proof of concept before generall rollout.

    Still having a testing envivorment is to be reqired.

    well done.

    cheers
    Ralf

  30. Clive Pro says:

    I hope the change control and testing with future releases of the SL client software is better than with 1.17.1.0, which crashes on startup on both my HP notebooks.

  31. benjakepler says:

    This approach is laudable.

    However, do you have in place procedures for dealing with money problems?

    On the Beta Grid payment problems could be ignored, on the Het Grid they cannot.

    There will be residents who

    a) have lost money due to a bug;
    b) think they have lost money due to a bug;
    c) will try to con you by saying they have lost money due to a bug.

    Will the transaction log be expanded to include the status of a region, such as ‘live’ or ‘test’, and the version of the viewer used? If a money problem does occur, will Support be able to match up a reported failed transaction to the state of the region where it took place?

    Please give this some thought. The key phrase here is ‘audit trail’.

  32. Keiko Rau says:

    @6 Laser, It seems you took me literally.

    You’re correct of course, the post talks of merging the beta grid into the main grid, but with the ideal of having just a single grid to manage, and other announced changes which seem to be enabling factors, how long do you think it will be before it begins to head down that path?

    I was merely (and I thought subtly) pointing out this possibility.

    As for the Het-Grid itself, bring it on – it will greatly improve many areas from shortening Linden’s development cycle and reducing duplication of maintenance, to uptime, to choice of viewer.

    My only real concern is a lot of people may choose not to upgrade for fear of finding new bugs in the latest viewer, which will mean that new features wont have the impact that they should… imagine the visual impact of sculpties if 60% of the population just saw an oval blob for example.

  33. Zephy Toshihiko says:

    So if I read this right, we can bi in a beta region with beta inventory and beta Lindens flying around with no worries as it won’t do anything to our ‘real’ AV but then we fly into a non-beta region and our Lindens and Inventory become real? Hope we get big message on the screen!
    Also, does that mean if we are in the Beat bits all our friends will be able to see we are on line and IM us? I guess there are good reasons to merge things together to make the beta a more realistic testing ground but I for one will miss the ‘isolated sandbox’ environment the beta grid gave (okay, so I use it for testing my things as well as testing SL but it works both ways 🙂 )

  34. Aratis Serapis says:

    My concern is that Beta testing with your Main grid inventory and objects may not be such a hot idea… I ahve issues enough with things disappearing (now it’s things in my house that have been there for months… had a server, a couple chairs, a few paintings and a table disappear), not sure I want to risk my paid-for items by going into a beta sim on the Main Grid. Especially since it will probably not be obvious that we ARE entering a Beta Test sim…

    Please keep the beta test grid. Don’t try to mash it all up together. I do hope that this is what you intend to do.

  35. Neard Harbinger says:

    This is great!

    What some people fail to realize is that this is a *huge* step in being able to more easily, efficiently, and quickly squash bugs. They could even put small upgrades to test a bugfix on a small area, let people test it with an updated viewer (where required), and see if it works. Sorta like mini-betas.

    Hopefully we’ll get “modular” upgrades soon, too; aka patches. In other words, instead of having to download the whole 30-70 meg installer every time there’s an update, we can just download the files that have changed. The easiest way would be to use an internet-enabled installer like so many other big packages use, that will only download what you need. This would really be win-win; the Lindens don’t have to create all new installers and packages every time there’s an update, just update the installer’s data in one place. Also they would ultimately use less bandwidth (after all, you’re only downloading a part of the package, and you could even integrate .gz or .bz2 compression on the individual files). And we would have less time to wait to get back to our addiction…err, “game”…*ahem*

    Too bad nobody will ever, ever, ever read this…

  36. > SECRET PROJECT BEING ANNOUNCED SOON

    Sounds interesting. 😀

    All the rest sounds good, I’ve been following the discussion on the ml and it will be cool. 🙂

    @4, Keiko, step 3 in your post is never reached. 😛

  37. Keiko Rau says:

    @30 Uh, yeah I knew that there would be someone who didnt get the South Park reference 🙂

  38. The XO says:

    @ Tegg B #19: LMFAO… very very funny indeed.

    @ The whiners:

    I’ve had fewer crashes and problems with this release than any other and i’m quite happy with it. Sure there are always little niggly problems, but do like you do in RL – work around them!

    Personally I feel that SL has been more stable now than in quite some time! It’s probably down to your spyware infested, virus riddled, over stressed and under powered PC’s.

    I have an Intel core 2 duo, 2 gigs of ram, 500gig HDD, nvidia 7800GT, a DECENT isp (yes it costs £28/$56 per month but worth it) running on Ubuntu Linux and it runs like a dream. Never been better. So maybe look closer to home before running down LL and the SL client!

    @ Everyone:

    I think this is a great development and shows LL are committed to making the grid more stable, more efficient and better for everyone involved. These processes, ideas and developments are simply superb and are a massive step forward!

  39. Sabin Linden says:

    @ 29 Neard Harbinger:
    I’m reading it right now! 😉 If you want to talk further about modular updates, give me the link to your forum topic about the matter. 😀
    On the subject of release cycles, I’ve always had an internal argument over whether I would want a product that constantly updates (every day), consistent updates (bi-weekly), or major updates (monthly/bi-monthly). In the end, I actually agree with the consistent way we do it now. We release fast enough that you aren’t suffering for too long (apologies to those who still _do_ suffer for too long) but we release slow enough that you know when to look out for a release.
    Thanks to Het-Grid, though, you can actually choose what release cycle you’re on. If you want it daily, just hit up a beta region every day. Bi-weekly? That’ll probably be when we do our entire-grid rolling restarts. Monthly or longer? Well… we’ll see how long a single client can last, but I’m not giving any guarantees here. We will be retiring old versions when necessary (especially in the case of security fixes).
    Remember guys, I’ll be at Zero’s office hours tomorrow at 1pm PST where the main topic will be Het-Grid.

  40. The XO says:

    @ Zephy Toshihiko #28:

    No…. you will be in a REAL region, with REAL inventory and REAL money… just the region/server/sim will be running the beta software

  41. Jordguitar Flasheart says:

    “.”

    What are you hiding from us >:O

  42. Anton Brody says:

    Get that 1.18 out already 🙂 i keep crashing while hitting edit…

  43. Monti says:

    So no more testing without spending lots of money.
    I just try to learn about textures and all this stuff. So i have to pay (Live)money for that. Sorry cant afford that.

    If beta View runs on parts of LifeGrid thats ok.

    Please keep the Beta-Grid as it was !!!
    But i need the isolated Beta. No annoying IMs not pay Real-money.

  44. Fyre Furse says:

    Since this new release every time I am right click edit on my products I’m crashing!! 😦 I dare not build or edit anything, where can I download the previous viewer version please,
    Fyre.

  45. Matthew Dowd says:

    Overall, this approach offers a number of benefits, however, I do have a concern over the shared underlying servers such as the asset servers.

    The beta grid is (I understand) totally isolated from the main grid so a problem in there will not cause problems on the main grid.

    However, suppose some bug in code on a beta sim causes corruption or slow down in the asset servers – this has the potential to affect the entire grid, not just the local sim.

  46. Raul Crimson says:

    * Areas which are running beta versions will be clearly marked for you. You don’t have to worry about Second Life becoming buggier than usual…
    Buggier than usual is almost impossible in some moments…
    Anyway is this is a way to have a better Second Life, go ahead, i’d love to say thanks some day.

  47. Raul Crimson says:

    Again about “buggier than usual” concept. I’m not sure if Second Life is meant as an eternal Beta (or Alpha) version, maybe that is the question…

  48. Norm Schack says:

    So does that mean that we will have to pay the actual 10L (no more experimentation L$ to work with) to upload a sculpty (or texture) only to find out that it looks nothing like the Item we made and is in fact not usable? That is how I fine tune the sculpties (on Beta/Auditi) before I invest in bringing them into the main grid. I am guessing that will be the end of sculpties (or is that over?) Its been a while since I have been able to log on long enough to find out.

  49. Mel says:

    Hi.. I have one concern about this new method. It is found in the paragraph…and phrases:

    * If you are an estate owner, you will be able to select “version channels” that allow your regions to update to a beta version for testing…..This gives the estate manager control over their regions so that our updates don’t interrupt your business.

    The first sentence intimates that the changes will be made by the estate owner.. the second suggests that estate managers can control it. PLEASE, please, please make sure that estate managers can control it. Having an absentee estate owner has caused this particular estate manager major problems. Not all estate owners are reachable or interested in the day to day workings of SL. (and no, it isn’t because the owner doesn’t wish me to have the abilities…he is just busy on other things and that is why he made me manager.)
    Thanks.

    (Oh, and if you would please, let us know if the changes will be enabled by owner, manager, or both so I know whether to stomp on my computer now or later??)

  50. Ann Otoole says:

    if you are having issues with the latest release then your efforts to type about it will do a lot more good at http://jira.secondlife.com where the defects can be triaged and dealt with by Linden Research accordingly.

  51. Thomas Shikami says:

    please keep the beta grid or another transitional grid, where changes to the world do not effect the main grid

  52. Dave says:

    Lest we forget, announcements like these are fantastic news. Don’t lose sight of how groundbreakingly cool this sort of thing is.
    It may be futile of me to try to keep this comment list pointed towards the light but heck, it’s worth a shot.
    Go back and re-read the post, and the previous one, if you don’t see why we should all be dancing in the streets over this.
    What you’ll get out of it all is that from when this is implemented, LL will be in the best position possible to iron out bugs, make big changes and effectively serve *us* the residents more effectively.
    Once more people, Woot!

  53. Vincent Nacon says:

    @42 Thomas Shikami: Does that mean you’re going to be on beta grid and test for bugs? Some people are too lazy to try beta grid… when a version got pushed into main grid, those people discover the bugs and ACTUALLY TAKES EFFORT TO COMPLAINS about those bugs…. It seem like those lazy people are just wasting their and our times because you didn’t try out the beta and report any bug you may find.

    You may think they are wasting your time but it’s not even close to true. You are wasting everyone’s time by not trying out the beta grid.

    Therefore, LL thought it was wise to make this plan where people spend time in anyway than Beta grid.

  54. Ann Otoole says:

    “Remember guys, I’ll be at Zero’s office hours tomorrow at 1pm PST where the main topic will be Het-Grid.”

    Is there an event listing of some sort where we can see who is discussing what, when, and where? Gets sort of tiring to try to remember to go to the blogs and search for this sort of thing.

  55. Jahman Ochs says:

    This *is* an excellent move. It addresses a major, major testing hurdle, and I applaud you for achieving this long-planned transition!

  56. SharpKnife Beaumont says:

    Hi same for me did a rollback from new version, it seems to be faster, but the crash rate also higher just click an object and edit and bye bye SL.

  57. Pandora Barzane says:

    Well congratz, Im now crashing every 5 minutes when I try to edit an attachment.

  58. Ann Otoole says:

    if your crashing when you try to edit something you might try this:
    1. uninstall sl completely
    2. remove the C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data\SecondLife directory.
    3. clear the temp folder
    4. empty the recycle bin
    5. reboot
    6. install secondlife

    this seems to have worked for some folks and has worked for me in the past when i get this exact same set of symptoms. I.e.; it isn’t specific to this release. i’ve seen it several times before and the fresh install worked.

    btw, if you have your chat and IMs logged then make a backup of those first if you want to keep that text data. the chat and IM logs are in the C:\Documents and Settings\\Application Data\SecondLife\\ directory.

  59. Ann Otoole says:

    thats C:\Documents and Settings\(os user name)\Application Data\SecondLife and C:\Documents and Settings\(os user name)\Application Data\SecondLife\(sl resident name) directories lol.

    sorry. i’m used to listing parameters in angle brackets.

  60. Sabin, thank you very much for the further clarification! Yes, this is definitely the way to go. No more whining about “I preferred the last version because it run faster/had less bugs/was more stable”. Let people stick to the version they prefer, and that’s final 🙂

    I certainly hope that this diminishes the current whining and grumbling on the official Linden Blog. After all, for every thousand users that are using any of the many versions you’ve released so far, there is one that has to forgot to clear the cache, update to the latest drivers, or has an overheating problem on their graphics card which is unable to run SL but is perfectly able to post on the Linden blog immediately and complain — and complaincomplaincomplain until the 100-comments-limit is reached. Now at least they’ll be able to try the latest version, complain a bit, and then revert to the last one they found to be working for them (then they’ll complain about “others” running bug-fixed versions while they can’t — lol). Still, this is a major improvement.

    I find it curious having separate sub-grids with different server versions. I hope this will all work well together. Again, the Web works like that, too — but it’s a dramatic change from “One Grid, One Vision of The World”. I look forward to see how this will work out.

    @27 Keiko: while certainly your assessment of the different features is correct, I guess this is just like the Web, where you have to adapt content for different browsers and make a note to the visitors what the “recommended” viewer is. There’s a trade-off between making a “lowest common denominator” virtual presence in SL and a “just for the latest version only” one. I guess people will start to flag their content advertising what version of SL it runs best with. I don’t know if that’s “good” or “bad”, but the Web survived with content targeted for multiple browsers since Netscape “split” from Mosaic… 🙂

    [start browser war]
    Now if Apple could only make their superfast Safari 3.0 able to use the advanced text input features that all other browsers have and plug the insanely memory leaking it has since 2000, then I could dump Firefox forever 🙂
    [end browser war]

    So, you do have a point, but I imagine that it might not be worse than what happens on the Web nowadays.

    @39 Norm has pointed out one of the major reasons that I used the Beta Grid (ADITI) as well: able to experiment a lot without undue charges. It’s not only sculpties — but sounds, animations, textures and clothing as well. Well, there is a Windows “clothing previewer” which certainly helps, but the other assets can only be tested “for free” in the Beta Grid. I had one animator once telling me that she spent L$3000-6000 to get a single animation correct — and I do very well believe her! — until she remembered she could do that easily in Beta. Now I’m not complaining about the “high cost of asset uploads” — L$10 is more than reasonable! — but the impossibility of successfully previewing assets in a working environment without paying first. The Beta Grid is/was crucial for that. I agree that there are other ways of doing the same thing — say, paying only after X minutes have elapsed without deleting the asset from your inventory. This would naturally require a lot of coding, though.

    @40 Mel also makes an excellent point. It seems that as time goes by, Estate Managers — a wonderful concept for delegating administrative tasks! — are getting more and more “neglected” in the tools they have: one of these days, they’ll only be able to delete prims and send region messages 😉 So I fully support Mel’s proposal.

  61. Tillie Ariantho says:

    Let control Estate Manager the migration to beta code… or none of the 500+ Anshe Chung islands will be updated or only very slow, as there is limited staff to handle it. And I want to define myself what code my sim is running on.

  62. jamma says:

    @50 Gwyn re overheating – good point, and one not many people would necessarily ever think of. I just went through a round of that myself.

    Normally I clean out the insides of my computer every three or four months (try it, you’ll be amazed and disgusted what collects around your precious inside bits) but I was a little late with spring cleaning this year. Summer hit, temperatures rose quickly, and suddenly I was crashing without warning, sometimes as often as every ten minutes, always while running SL.

    Finally I started monitoring system temperatures and found that as soon as it hit 95 F, my graphics card would shut down to protect itself from further damage. Cracked that case, cleaned the dirt and cat hair out of the fans and radiator fins and voila, not a single crash since! It sure *looked* like it was SL’s fault but was actually my own messy case.

  63. Max Burns says:

    That ruins the point of beta grid where you can upload your creations for free while developing, then after many tries and fixes upload final product in main grid. With this het-grid you gotta pay money all the time.

  64. Hypatia Callisto says:

    via la Het-Grid 😀

    One more step on the way to open sourcing the sim server software, thus paving the way for our own colocated equipment Yay! Looking forward to having a look at it all 🙂

    Folks complaining about a merge with the teen grid – stop already with the jumping to conclusions. This is good for us, not bad, and I don’t see where this has anything to do with merging the grids. If we are to have colocated equipment hooking up to the grid, this is something necessary, as there’s no way that the Lab can control YOUR server in that situation. Hrmf.

  65. “* If you are an estate owner, you will be able to select “version channels” that allow your regions to update to a beta version for testing. As an example, some channels would be “mainland,” “voice beta,” and “.” You can then set a “deploy policy” of either automatic updates (your region will update as soon as a new version is released) or manual updates (your region will update to the latest version whenever you choose). This gives the estate manager control over their regions so that our updates don’t interrupt your business.”

    Will Estate Owners have the option to back version to a stable version if they select a beta version and it proves unstable?

  66. Hypatia Callisto says:

    viva la Het-Grid, even.

    Damn, my world for an edit key. Anyway, it’s good to test on the open grid, and that the days of taking down the full grid for updates are numbered, or at least not going to happen nearly as much.

  67. Celty Westwick says:

    As someone who has had quite negative experiences lately with SL, I have to be fair and say if this is executed as stated, it sounds like a good re-think of your processes and approach. May it go well.

  68. I too would like to voice my opinions about the use of the beta grid for uploading. I rather recently completed a new avatar and it probably cost me about L$1300 on tail textures alone because I was trying to fix a stupid aliasing issue that occurs when textures are uploaded to SL (namely the edges are blurred together, so my completely transparent edge on one side was being blurred with a completely white edge on the other side). I plan to learn how to make sculpted prims over the next few days since school’s on the down swing, and since I have to upload for those too to test build, especially if I’m uploading multiple parts for the same object, it’ll be rather expensive testing. I REALLY don’t want to be wasting thousands in the main grid when I don’t need to.

    If the het-grid will be removing our “beta funding” by replacing the beta grid with main grid sims that run beta software, discussions for testing textures in a real environment in world for free will need to be discussed. I’ve started a thread here (which I’m presently filling out) for discussing those options.

  69. Maklin Deckard says:

    “#27 My only real concern is a lot of people may choose not to upgrade for fear of finding new bugs in the latest viewer, which will mean that new features wont have the impact that they should… imagine the visual impact of sculpties if 60% of the population just saw an oval blob for example.”

    This is an upside! LL will have PROOF POSITIVE that folks prefer stability over chrome if the bulk of players are no longer are forced into buggy upgrades. If the players avoid the new releases due to fear of bugs and these new features lack inpact, perhaps the Lindens will wake up and concentrate on STABILITY and bugfixes, rather than listening to the cheerleader-fanboys and their relentless drive for more useless chrome (aka, new features) to keep their short attention spans focused until the next batch of ‘Oooh! Shiny!’ gets rolled out.

    Not that I see the Lindens as intellectually honest enough for this…most of them are short-attention ‘Ohhh! Shiny!’ types. I foresee the’d issue a mystery ‘security’ patch to force everyone to the current version, claim we love the chrome over all, and do the same old, same old.

  70. Torrid Luna says:

    I don’t know if that’s such an good idea. Didn’t you know that Het-Grid is killed by the death eaters in the last book?

    Sorry, couldn’t resist^^
    Torrid

  71. Rocket Hudson says:

    I upgraded to version 1.17.1 last night. I don’t normally have any problems with crashing but with this version it crashed every other time I selected “Edit” on an object.

    After 20 or so crashes I rolled back to 1.17.0.12 which works fine. If this is going to be required after wednesday then we’ve really got problems. There is some new crash bug on edit in that new version!

  72. Krimson Gray says:

    Lastest optional viewer crashes to desktop every other time I hit edit. I dare not click on a chair or try to manipulate an object without seeing SL simply go poof.

  73. Benja says:

    @46 Ann:

    Office hours are listed here

    http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/Office_Hours

    and there’s a link to a Google calendar

  74. Melanie Milland says:

    Firstly. I applaud that decision to free(ze) the message template and make versions interoperate.
    I hate these mandatory viewer downloads, that force me to download at the busiest time imaginable, when the download takes forever.

    Now, what I would like to see is several concuurently maintained base versions of the viewer, most notably one that keeps the modular UI (friends list,groups and chat history separate from IM).

    Also, either make all major new features (voice, windlight) optional (able to turn them off completely in prefs), or keep a viewer version around that doesn’t have them.

    If I, for instance, decide I don’t want voice, ever, I wouldn’t like to be forced to download a voice enabled viewer because you decide that my preferred version should be end-of-lifed and no non-voice version is available in the new viewer generation.

    Also, I don’t like glass ceilings, so a sky at 768 meters is not what I am looking for. I’d rather keep the old sky, I don’t need the fancy looks, that is not what I come to SL for!

    This change gives you the option to have many more satisfied users – by letting us omit features we don’t want.

    I’m not an anti-progress whiner… if Windlight skies are moved to infinite distance, e.g. can never be reached, like the current sky, then I’m all for it and would love to have it! I’m not contra progress, but I don’t like the tradeoffs.

    As with voice: I am a content creator. I value screen real estate above anything else. I would forego voice, which i might use once in a blue moon, if I have to put up with that misdesigned “Chatterbox” UI for it.
    I love my friends list, it is open a lot. I make it taller than wide, because that is most suitable to it.
    My IM’s are wider than tall, which is proper for that.
    Why should these be coalesced into a window that then has to be tall _and_ wide, losing a lot of screen space?
    Finally, chat history. I keep it open, but very small, at all times – to prevent that transparent writing from appearing, obscuring my builds!

    If that is taken away, I would have to banline all land I build on, so that everyone would stay out of chat range!

    So, please, listen for once, and maintain the old UI as a separate viewer, now that has become possible to do.

  75. ari blackthorne says:

    WOOT!

    yeah, all the whiners are still whining not realizing -THIS- is what they have been whining for LOL

    WTG LINDENONIANS!

    Now – all you whiners whining that you want fixes over features – get a freakin’ clue. LOL

    This is sweet! I remember a blog post like six-months ago. And finally, it begins to come to pass. I’m all pumped up 😀

  76. Itsa Me says:

    Good, because right now I crash whenever I open the build menu.

  77. Zen Zeddmore says:

    it’s gonna get GAMED!!! a bug will get noticed and no one will have lindens or land. mark my words.
    i so wish this wasn’t so.

  78. CaptJosh Au says:

    ari, the whiners are always going to whine, even when they get what they supposedly want. Why? Because what they really want is something to complain about. That’s the way their little pea brains operate.I, for one, am glad to see the progress.

    I do wish we were already moving on to things like using existing proven web technologies for applications like texture loading. I thought we were going to switch over to HTTP for textures many months ago, but it still acts like we’re on the old messaging system for them, and there are some things UDP was never meant to do.

  79. BlueCoyote says:

    ah well, i have had no problems with the veiwer, or rather new problems. the typical lag and the occational crashes ( i only experanced 2 crashes, the least i have had with a new veiwer since i joined in a 24 hour period) i have had no problems with editing and duplicating prims, the news i welcome, and i am glad that the future veiwers will get real-world pounding to see what is possoble. frankly i am surprised for as long as it has been and still LL is in the V1 range. i would have expected a 2.0 or 3.0 by now. hoefully this new system will clear things up. now i will cross my fingers.

  80. Vanessa Sakai says:

    Which regiens will be enabled? Will it only be Linden owned regiens that will have the test versions? I think that they should confine testing to Linden owned ones (Linden village, Poolly Stage, etc.) only and not ones that have private land in them.

  81. That defeats the point Vanessa. The plan (as I understand it) is to give sim owners an option in a dialog (probably the estate dialog) that says “Enable region upgrades” with a sub option for “Automatically” and another sub option for “Enable beta software trials”. Not everyone is paranoid that sim software will utter destroy their sims, and if it’s enabled on a small scale it’s easy to roll back to a previous, non-beta implemented state where things don’t go loopy.

  82. Linda Brynner says:

    VERY GOOD WORK LINDEN GUYS !!

  83. Smiley Barry says:

    WOOT!
    Can’t wait for it.

  84. Simon Nolan says:

    Woo hoo!

  85. Tony says:

    Ah what will those who love to whine about the whiners do when the whiners have less to whine about? People in glass houses and all that hey folks.

    I’m not sure how well this is all going to work with optional versions for regions, certain utilities in the game get borked with certain updates, those who create those are going to have to run big inventories of this version works with this client, which could provide some hefty overheads.

    However as I haven’t been able to install the latest viewer yet and I read that people are having problems, I do see the upside to the new process.

  86. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    Instead of maintaining seperate viewers, which is pointless.

    Have all UI options installed into the viewer, with the option to switch between them.

    Also, you really need to make it possible to only download the required files for an update, rathere than downloading an entirely fresh viewer.

    I’d personally like to see only a single viewer, but one that is so customiseable as to keep everyone happy anyways.

  87. Pingback: Viva la revolution! « SNBlog

  88. Spank lovell says:

    A huge step forward guys. Excellent approach which I can only applaud.

    Well done and heres hoping the transition is a smooth and sucessful one.

  89. chechelChoche says:

    vers. 1,17,1 (osx) crash after crash like never before – when i edit objekts !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    why ?

  90. Inigo Chamerberlin says:

    I for one shall await events before commenting, on the basis that, purely on the laws of chance, LL must be able to touch something every now and again without completely Lindening it!

    The only worry is that this sounds like when it goes pear shaped it is going to take the entire grid out in one go.

  91. Simon Nolan says:

    Melanie said, “Now, what I would like to see is several concuurently maintained base versions of the viewer…”

    You’re kidding, right? Just because Microsoft releases 47 different versions of Vista doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, and I think its a really bad idea for Second Life.

  92. Raban Laborde says:

    Uhhhh… testing in a producitional environment?

    That’s the worst idea i’ve heared since a long time.
    If such a “beta area” e.g. enables a Resident to use a security leak – how will he be stopped? The main grid is not a asandbox for testing. How will an “exporting” of an exploit be controlled?

  93. Darth Juniper says:

    I am pleased to hear this. It shows that contrary to what many believe, the Lindens do appreciate the hate many of us have for the dreaded updates and have found an idea which although some say is not a perfect solution, shows that they do care about the customers. At least a bit.

  94. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    The client crash issue seems to have been fixed 🙂 Thanks alot. I guess it only needed a rolling restart.

  95. Chronic Skronski says:

    Dirk Felix:
    Setp 1, work on the platform

    Step 2, repeat step 1

    Looks more to me like:

    Step 1: LL posts a blog post.
    Step 2: ????? (why bother READING the post?)
    Step 3: Bitch about the same thing you bitch about in every open comment.

  96. Vanessa Sakai says:

    Feynt. What I meant was for contienental land not private estates. Contenental land owoners can’t use regien tools.

  97. HealthStar says:

    It would be nice to see a few “no charge” upload and test sandboxes.

  98. aeper jie says:

    Ok Good job LL adding another grid in some respects, Now only if you guys would give discounts to Teens on Tsl For sims. We are not Adults. Or the Rich Kids. *that means you Alex Harbringer* but if you lowerd the price for teens alot more of us would buy sims, or at least offer the old class sims the class 3? i belive

  99. Marcus says:

    I think this a very good idea and looking forward to this change, keep up the good work Lindens!! ^.^

  100. Girly Riederer says:

    One thing that needs to be done for this to have real value is the various usable viewers need to be available, what good is it if you download a new viewer and itss not working right if you cant find the old one to go back to? Like right now i dowloaded 1.17.01 and was in the middle of building when I relogged it asked me to dowload the new viewer, I did, and now I can’t build because i crash when I try to edit something. I have searched both this blog and the forums and cannot find the old viewer to go back to, so now I am stuck 😦

  101. hugsalot says:

    hey logins are hosed right now! please go whip the hamsters back on the hamster wheel generators.

  102. Bobo Decosta says:

    If i fully understand this post you might be on the right track. A lot of people that I talked into downloading SL ask me if it’s normal that every-time they log in they need to update their version. Obviously a lot of people do not log into second life everyday and maybe only 2 times a month. I can imagine a lot of those people really never get into playing second life because every time they login they need to download “something” what means they have no instant gratification.

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