Preview of Second Life 1.17.0(9) on Beta Grid Updated

We’ve updated the Beta Test Grid to Second Life 1.17.0(9). Please come check it out!

New viewers will be required, and the viewers come in two flavors:

The changes are primarily bug fixes, including some much anticipated memory usage fixes.
Release notes with changes from the last Beta Test Grid update follow

Release Notes for Second Life 1.17.0(9) June 7, 2007
=====================================
Changes:
* Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.
* Preliminary support added to the Windows installer for selecting a language

Bug fixes:
* Fixed VWR-966: Minor memory leak in llfloaterpreferences.cpp and a tiny leak in llstatup.cpp
* Fixed VWR-908: Various memory leaks in the group dialog
* Fixed VWR-871: More bad f00d: Two minor (or inconsequential) misses of initializing object members
* Fixed VWR-869: Possible hard-loop (endless, viewer-hang) in script editor
* Fixed VWR-827: Toruses are borked after making/editing sculpted prims
* Fixed VWR-822: “Create new…” clothing buttons don’t auto-wear items
* Fixed VWR-648: Texture picker should highlight the texture in the swatch
* Fixed VWR-364: Viewer memory leak
* Fixed group messages now allow the use of UTF8 characters
* Fixed “Show Owners” from automatically turning on again
* Fixed an issue with release controls when an object is taken and rerezed.

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142 Responses to Preview of Second Life 1.17.0(9) on Beta Grid Updated

  1. Korena Starbrook says:

    GREAT NEWS!!!!

    and in the meantime – nothing is working on the main grid.

  2. Chris Gaits says:

    Sweet good job guys, when will the * Fixed VWR-364: Viewer memory leak be implemented in the regular grid viewer?

  3. Doogood Lane says:

    Nice to know this is done before sorting out today’s problems – priorities eh??

  4. Alpha Zaius says:

    Yay 🙂

    Does this mean a possible voice first look client in the near future? 😛

  5. Lestat Kyomoon says:

    Is the search engine work on it ?

  6. Henri Beauchamp says:

    Quote:
    “Changes:
    * Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.”

    Why the Hell did you remove this very cool feature ??? I create a lot of scripted toys, with help notecards giver script, and I find it very handy, even as the owner and creator of the notecard, to be able to simply discard it instead of having to browse the inventory and delete it…

    Please, revert this change…

  7. Arven Dagger says:

    This is nice, but perhaps you should fix the MAIN GRID first. It has a lot of problems going on ever since the “maintainance”. TP’s don’t work, search won’t work, people are losing L$…
    I think you should stop releasing these little toys, and improve stability.
    I was thinking about becoming a premium member, but $9 a month is not worth it for this kind of stability.

  8. mo dryke says:

    don’t you Lindens have something more important to do? like fixing the main grid and improving customers support and communication???

    don’t want pretty skies
    // want decent support
    /// want stable platform
    //// don’t care about who made a sculptie

  9. Tony says:

    Seriously poor timing posting bug fixes about the beta grid when the main grid is in such a mess. Do you guys talk to each other?

  10. Elex Dusk says:

    As much as I’d love to look over the new “features” on the beta grid before their wonderfully broken arrival on the main grid I’m still waiting on the stipend that I filed two support tickets on which were “resolved” by pointing me at the blob post which has provided no additional information and, sadly, no stipend.

  11. saijanai says:

    Grats on the nice bug-fixes, but people should know that it is often far easier to add these little features than fix some of the major bugs that keep nagging people. Now, if they add mono or Havok Physics 2+ before fixing the nagging bugs, THEN you can complain, though come to think of it, those may be the actual solutions to some of the existing bugs…

  12. Tristin Mikazuki says:

    This is nice…
    But getting the STIPEND fix is nicer..stop doing features BEFORE fixes!!

  13. It took you guys over 12 hours to report to us there are other major problems. Think of all the noobs that just signed up for SL this week. What a great experience they are getting on SL.

    Screw that BETA of 1.17.09 Get 1.16 FIXEd 1st. We don’t care about damn clouds get the rest fixed.

    Quit moving on to new projects & reporting that o wow they are on th beta.. This version 1.16 was beta tested how come it went live when nothing working in it. How many times are we gonna get Message errors on group chats. O yea the group notices thought they were fixed too.

    REMEMBER check the blog for updates etc when it takes over 12 hours & more to update what’s going on. Only a few more hours on the lindens work day will you guys be working overtime today to get this crap fixed. I’m sure people are loving not being paid properly & angry visitors blaming the owners of places not paying them.

    Thanks again for the pretty clounds that worked for a week & no longer work right!!! Great job with that update…..

  14. Brenda Maculate says:

    @4: “perhaps you should fix the MAIN GRID first.”

    I am perfectly happy with having the testing for fixes on the Beta Grid– Theoretically, if they cause any problems, it would be found out there, rather than on the Main Grid.

    LL, it’s good to see bug fixes… Please keep them coming!

  15. Ann Otoole says:

    stick it where the sun don’t shine. a vast majority of paying and non paying residents want no more touch from the lindens for at least a year. you have screwed everything up consistently. get the clue and send all the programmers packing. they are not wanted nor needed. hire a real crew of back end specialists like database engineers and concentrate only on making whats there right now work right.

  16. Ann Otoole says:

    and hire a PR firm to manage the blog.

    the last thing you needed to do was post this announcement on the heels of yet another day of lost revenues in sl.

    jeez even a kid could figure out that this announcement was really poor timing.

  17. Tony says:

    @9 “I am perfectly happy with having the testing for fixes on the Beta Grid– Theoretically, if they cause any problems, it would be found out there, rather than on the Main Grid.”

    Agreed, however fixing stipends, searches and uploads are far more important than fixing beta bugs. Beta can wait, it should be a lower priority and making the announcement about beta fixes now is to say the least, poor timing.

  18. FIX THE GRID says:

    Why not fix the grid first instead of adding things.
    i pay 295 usd a month to be in 2 days with crap all working. no ls no tp
    ghost prims all over the place, no revenue bugged rubbish.

    its about time we all stood up and vented our feelings, because people are not listening somewere.

  19. mo dryke says:

    @12: how do you want then to communicate with us an appropriate way when it’s obvious they seem unable to communicate internally?

    @13: any linden working on nice skies, beta grid or voice MUST stop what he is doing and work fixing the main grid

    ________________________________________
    /don’t want pretty skies
    // want decent support
    /// want stable platform
    //// don’t care about who made a sculptie

  20. Doris Haller says:

    seems like nothing is working… so it’s about time to

    ANNOUNCE A FANCY NEW FEATURE!

    How about automatic screenshots printouts?

    Or walking trees! No, more multimedia: Singing bushes!

    Continental Drift! Yes: The SIMs should move slightly to make it harder to TP…

    How about Self-fulfilling bugs? It should be an easy thing to implement…

  21. Elendir Axon says:

    @saijanai
    Perhaps I am incorrect but, since the viewer is now open source, would we not be able to update havok to any version due to the fact that havok is proprietary?

  22. Luci Koenkamp says:

    Come on guys … are you serious? Fix the main grid first!!!!!!! I´ve been stuck here for the last hour … my shop isn´t selling anything and I cant see my friends. Damned bad timing to come with this now. I bought some stuff … my money is gone but I didn´t get the goods.

  23. Alyx Sands says:

    What IS your problem, there IS no fancy new “feature”???? It’s BUGFIXES for the Beta Viewer which will BE in the Main Grid viewer with the next release! Should LL now stop making new Beta viewers, or what? And what is BAD about having voice again separate from “normal” beta???? I do remember many many people moaning about Voice, and now it’s separate again and people STILL moan.
    Do you think there’s only three people working at LL? Some are assigned to these bugfixes and beta stuff, and some to whatever current problems the Grid has-just because one team doesn’t get their behinds up fast enough means that the others should stop working?

  24. Smokey Newman says:

    Looked on here for an update on the current problems to see this.

    Please could you let us know what is happening?

  25. Well commenters, but most of these bugs have been in the make far longer than the recent breakdowns on the main grid. A lot of those (with the ones announced recently for the cancelled update for the main grid) will make a big difference on the viewer side experience and will put away a lot of minor or major nuisances.

  26. Annie Malaprop says:

    This standard one-blog format is not working.

    I think perhaps this page should be set up so that any current grid status updates will *always* appear on top, with other topics appearing down below rather than pushing the information that is of *immediate* concern to most users down below the fold.

    I know you don’t mean it this way, but this post comes across as “nothing to see here – look, a distraction!”

    Meanwhile, looks like a long day of no sales. I sure hope LL is planning to extend our classified ad expiration dates accordingly.

  27. INNAH TIZZY says:

    While voice feature is all well and good, what about fixing the existing problems first before dangling the carrot in front of us.

  28. Tony says:

    @15 “Just because one team doesn’t get their behinds up fast enough means that the others should stop working?”

    No they shouldn’t stop working, they should just liaise with the other team and time their announcements in a more customer friendly fashion. This should have been kept under wraps until the current major live bugs are fixed. Not only would that be better PR, it would also lead to more constructive discussion in the blog.

  29. Seng Syaka says:

    And you know? Lindens WILL NEVER hear our complains. This has been happening for more than a year…and it has been the same ol’ story everytime the grid is f**ked up. That’s why I stopped complaining, drama-ing AND being a Premium Account on my other account. Just because LL services sucks >.>

  30. Ann Otoole says:

    Alyx they need to learn when to speak and when to shut up. They should have engaged in “transparency” during the huge financial outage resulting from whatever idiocy was dealt to the database system Wednesday morning. Then they should have not announced this beta publication till Sunday at the earliest.

    Its a simple matter of PR damage control.

    Give it a few days. Everyone will settle down.

    However I recommend LL not release anything or perform any so-called maintenance, which whatever they did Wednesday wasn’t maintenance since it obviously involved something untested, for at least a month now. We have almost zero confidence in Linden Research as it is.

    What is a fact is that the grid works well when it is not touched by Linden Research. Too bad they don’t read the blog comments.

    Hopefully they do read the business press where it has been rather bluntly stated that a different leadership team is needed at Linden Research. And hopefully they will heed the advice and bring in seasoned pros sharing the same vision but who have no qualms about cutting loose unproductive primadonnas and polygraphing the entire staff to identify those who have violated ethics in any form.

  31. Pingback: SecondLife - How To Make Money In Second Life » Preview of Second Life 1.17.0(9) on Beta Grid Updated

  32. Trish Brennen says:

    Yeah really, how about fixing the MAIN GRID first….I have people falling thru solid objects in my club, and all kinds of other problems.

  33. mcgeeb Gupte says:

    I don’t get it. Everyone knows except them that whenever they do maintenance or whatever, something goes wrong.

  34. Arven Dagger says:

    @ #9

    The main grid is of much more importance, and it is having HUGE issues.

  35. Fifi says:

    >Do you think there’s only three people working at LL? Some are >assigned to these bugfixes and beta stuff, and some to whatever >current problems the Grid has-just because one team doesn’t get >their behinds up fast enough means that the others should stop >working?

    Yes – I think the programming team that’s been working on the ‘attachments up yer arse’ bug and the ‘sit and move directly to 0,0,0’ bug and the ‘Inventory search doesn’t find anything’ bug, will soon be liberated from their lengthy cryogenic suspension..

  36. Geeky Wunderle says:

    Lets put this in a way some of you might understand.

    Company has X employee’s, lets say 100.

    75% are employed to work on the production. (Thats 75 people for those of you who are no good at math). They know the production system inside out, know what goes where, etc, etc.

    20% (Thats 20 people) are in administration, they handle billing, paperwork, and pencil pushing (errr keyboard tapping).

    5% (Thats 5 people) work on the test setup, they are employed and have knowledge on development, not the production system.

    Now what good are those 5 people going to be in a failure on the production system? More than likely, NONE. So they keep doing their job, the one they are paid to do, DEVELOPING.

    Sure there might be cases where the 5 could and probably do help, but consumers of the service are in no way able to tell, because they don’t have the required know how or information to tell.

    So, in the end, the only mistake LL had is having a combined blog where various staff members post news about their area of work.

    Think of it this way, could the person in the cubicle next to you do your job?

    What about the guy two floors down and three rows across, could they?

    How about the guy in the office building across the road, could he? (you know the guy who’s always working late at night, the one the bosses think is working long hard hours when in fact he is staying late to use the office OC48 to play SL.)

    Give em a break, they are working miracles and sometimes miracles take time and several attempts.

  37. Misterbear Fapp says:

    Here’s my name in a post again! I sure do love myself.

    Oh Annie, Annie, Annie. That would be like your internet provider or cable company giving you a free day for each service outage. If that ever happens, there may be hope that a president will off himself for being a bad president.

    Just wait till voice moves to the main grid and then wonder how much more you’ll be willing to put up with until you cancel your account! For myself, I just work a crappy job so I can pay for my SL crack addiction. There’s no hope for me now. Please SL, take more of my money!

  38. Zimmy Ginsberg says:

    This is probably a good summation of all that’s wrong with Linden, and why people get the idea that Linden is fiddling while Rome is burning…

    The main grid is totally borked, search has been down for close to 24 hours, money is lost, profiles not loading – all essentially database problems which show just hours after you do some database work during maintainance. Do you think there’s a connection there at all? Yes those very same databases that you don’t coddle, that you think are unimportant, but clearly all your users attach great relevance to.

    By failing to listen to the users who want you to fix the long standing things, to fix the stuff you’re recently borked (Group IMs, inv list not showing up in texture editor etc etc), pushing shiny new things that people don’t really care about till after the whole SL experience is stable, usable and fun once more, what have you done?

    You now split your resources over multiple teams, producing multiple versions of a Beta Viewer, a First Look Viewer, a main Viewer, as well as server and database and network issues. That’s more problems with code control and versioning, more bugs introduced to fix sometime in the future, more work merging them, more things to “forget” etc.

    Announcing stuff like this, while the main grid is having such problems, after a bork with passwords that you’re strangely silent on, are all indications of bad PR too. Look at stuff, like trends. You used to get 50% of people complaining, 50% saying give Linden a chance. After the latest problems, it was 98% complaining, 2% saying give LL a chance. See a trend there? Do you think what you’re doing is improving things, and customer perception or not?

    and I have to agree with 3:

    “Changes:
    * Notecards no longer display the keep and discard buttons for the owner of the notecard.”

    Great. Do you guys actually think things through before some monkey decides something? Do you ask first? Do you have any experience of how things work inworld?

    There should be a mechanism to float such ideas out to users first (part of JIRA maybe).

    ***Cancel this change***. Most of the time the buttons are irrelevant. But, as Henri Beauchamp has said, changing this is disastrous. Not just for his reason, but others. With almost every ad panel you rent, to find out time remaining, you press info. That also tests it, and sends you copies of the notecards you already have, because you put them in there.

    Net result? You can no longer discard these unwanated copies as they open. So you have to manually hunt them and delete thm, or let them pile up. That will bloat inventories, put more load on the asset servers, network comms, make inv take even longer to load, add load when crossing sims etc etc. All bad on an already overloaded and stretched system. A stunningly good example of a useless and downgrading feature or change.

    Geesh, stop tinkering and wasting time, people and resources on unnecessary stuff that are retrograde, and fix all the core issues first. Put that monkey to work instead on checking that your coders do not bork more with their “fixes”. If you do that I’ll give him a banana and some peanuts.

  39. Annoyed says:

    I think less time needs to be spent worrying about the beta grid and voice testing, and more time spent fixing the main grid already. It’s freakin ridiculous.

  40. Questor Sinclair says:

    Never mind this stuff. What about the ongoing problems — like no money, no attachments, no tp, no search. Just the little things, maybe, but PLEASE fix them and stop them reoccurring first.

  41. Annie Malaprop says:

    Actually, Misterbear, Misterbear, Misterbear… 😉

    Many ISPs *do* issue credits for significant outages if the problem is their fault (and not, say, the fault of the phone company). At least, the better ones do that.

    It’s pretty simple – I’m paying a LL certain amount for advertising and they are not delivering for whatever reason. In any other industry (radio, TV, print, web), they would be required to refund that money or extend the number of days the ad is active. Why shouldn’t that be the case here?

  42. Good job getting out a beta with pretty much just bug fixes in the release notes. Also nice for those who’ve been unable to use the beta grid, the snapshot date for the use database is now June 3rd.

  43. The Todd says:

    Annie, generally both parties agree to a Service Level Agreement (SLA) to get that. I don’t think that was part of the SL subscription. It would be good for them to refund those fees but I don’t think they’re obligated to do it.

  44. Ryde Whitman says:

    WTF…Previewing a new release when the current release is totally useless…..

    Not a GD thing works…but yet the Linden Idiots promote a new release…IDIOTS

  45. ASCIIrider Hailey says:

    With the main grid almost useless right now, shouldn’t that take priority? This is where we spend our money, do our business have our second life not rhe beta grid. Maybe you guys should pull together for a little bit and not worry so much about the test grid and get things fixed? Not act like (shrug) oh well that’s not my problem, not my department. If LL’s office caught on fire would ANYONE there even reach for an extinguisher or think it’s someone elses problem to deal with?

    I’m not slamming Joshua for posting He’s only the messenger.

  46. ONE PO'd RESIDENT says:

    DO A ROLL BAAAAAAACK MY GOD WE ARE ALL LOSING MONEY HERE NO ADS FOR CLASSSIFIEDS WE NEED TO PAY OUR FLIPPIN TIERS THESE ADS WE PAY FOR HELL NO ONE CAN EVEN BUY ANYTHING YOU REALLY KNOW HOW TO SCREW OVER YOUR CUSTOMERS!!
    YOU SURE TOOK OU PAYMENTS FOR THEM AND HAVENT GIVEN US OUR STIPENDS YET FUNNY

  47. Jack Hathor says:

    ORIGINALLY POSTED UNDER THE RIGHT TOPIC, BUT WHILE TYPING IT USAGI TOOK ALL(!!) AVAILABLE SLOTS!!!!!!

    I like to add 3 things;

    1,
    I cant understand you mess up and then you go home, leaving it to “more qualified people” to clean it up later, meanwhile the basics not functioning. Based on priorities one would think that problems with chat, money, inventory, teleporting, IMs, and building are reason for the LindenLabs to remain on the site 24/7, at least till the level where it doesnt do damage no more. In the worst case you put a sign up reading OUT OF ORDER, not that we like it, but at least its clear.

    And really, was this something totally unexpected ? Reading the posts tells me;
    ” were going to update”
    ” were not going to update”
    ” were gonna do maintenance, but no server and/or client update”
    ” were done with maintenance and we wanna do a little more”
    Doesnt look really stable to me, worrying more over the vague descriptions given along with it, if you cant tell me what youre about to do in simple words, then im doubting if you can tell yourself.

    What i see is that with your urge to push out an ” update” weekly, youre putting some important systems under stress:

    Customers, for they cant use the grid as its meant to be, not to mention business dropping badly over your update efforts, resulting in a flood of supportcalls, blog-ll-bashing and unhappy people, showing less and less patience;

    Support, for they must be getting flooded and tired over hearing and fixing the same old problems every week and getting yelled at over it on top, resulting in unmotivated, burned out co-workers, subsystems running on overload or not running at all (pabx, ticketing system, jira ..);

    Development, for not getting the job done, or at least not the job the customers expects/believes them to do, not getting the reward they deserve over the things actually done, as they get covered in the ever repeating problems, they get, indirectly yelled at and openly people wonder about their abilities;

    3rd-parties, for you continiously put the blame on others when things go wrong;

    Q&A, *laughs hysterically*, must be hell working there, as theyre on a tight weekly schedule too and theyre seriously expected to tackle all the trash out of the code, preferably up front;

    Its my opinion that youre simply driving this in a too high pace that many cant follow. Where in other environments the userbase cries out for more content, here were crying out for less content, and more stability first, bring us an overall plan to bring (back?) stability and performance, define the simple essentials, and make them work according to a plan and take your time to do so. Youre lucky enough to have very accepting and forgiving users.
    ————————————————
    2. funny email
    I received a funny email from LindenLabs@parature.com on the topic that i need to reset my password. For all i know i could be rootkitted or otherwise keylogged and someone wants me to go type my password.
    —————————————–
    3. Website changed looks
    In relation to 2, the looks of the secondlife website changed. Blog is no longer available on the left side, no biggie, or I either missed the announcement of it, or you didnt bother to announce it.

    Regards,
    Jack Hathor

  48. Sammy says:

    WOOHOO! Yet another sorry assed attempt to detract attention from the problems they have and can’t fix. Seriously, when you guys actually FIX something for once, THEN you can start with the gay ass smacking self-congratulations. I want to see IN WRITING ON THIS BLOG what exactly our (paying customers) money is going into. You have a 24/7 setup, yet only an 8/5 crew that’s only available 2/3. Sell this crapshoot if you can’t handle it. Even SOE and their sorry tactics could run this thing with more competence.

  49. Beatrix MacKay says:

    @15

    no, of course they not should stop naking bugfixes, but – make teh bugfixes 1st where they are needed first, and currently with a search down since 24 hours, TP’s failing, problems with logging in and all that – the work is definitely needed on the main grid – and all of work they can put into it. And time to post this here is a bad time, makes ppl think heck, what they are doing instead of working on the biggest problems…

    and PLEASE not let go the missing KEEP / DISCARD buttons go into one of the final versions, I really NOT want to store automatically every annoying notecard that a greeter sends me if I eneter somewhere, I not want automatically store every damn notecard someone spamming the world with handing everyone adverstisement-notcardshands me, I not want to automatically store every notecard of poorly scripted items that give me each time a help notecard that I touch them for menu first…..

    I think I not must continue why deleting those buttons is a bd idea, don’t I ?

  50. Selkit Diller says:

    Doris Haller Says:
    June 7th, 2007 at 2:10 PM PDT

    (Quoted) …Continental Drift! Yes: The SIMs should move slightly to make it harder to TP…

    Thankfully, that one got fixed back in 1.7 or so. Sims would actually do so locally. Imagine waking up one morning to find your sim has shifted 8 meters, has an ocean trench on one side and a blob of corrupted land on the other. They had a few doozies back In Ye Olde Days. The ‘Sim underwater’ bug still occasionally surfaces, but that’s nowhere near as bad as landmass drifts which would usually result in mass object loss when things got buried.

    However… it’s great to see bugfixes, *but*… what about this verification you’re still quietly skulking about on, Lindens? Still no word on that, of course… unpopular issue that was, wasn’t it.

  51. Mimi says:

    The teleports don’ t work, so people wont visit the shop I pay weekly for….
    But hey at least I earn money on items that people do not receive!

  52. Cristopher Whitfield says:

    Sorry to bark…. BUT THIS CANNOT BE !!!!!

    WE HAVE PAYED AND ARE PAYING A LOT IN SEARCH ADDS !!!!!

    NOW NO ONE IS ABLE TO FIND US….. WE ARE LOOSING MONEY !!!!

    SO WHAT DO YOU THINK OF FIXING THE PROBLEMS NOW. and who cares about voice and such things now, Beta grid, and again and again and again NEW VERSIONS….. Well take care of your people here, WE ARE THE ONES WHO PAY YOU….. NEVER FORGET THAT !!!

    And again sorry for barking, but this is not the nice way to play with all of us. PLEASE GET IT SETTLED NOW !!!! WE HAVE PROBLEMS

    Thanks WOW

  53. Zimmy Ginsberg says:

    @ 30 The Todd – you don’t think they’re obligated? You pay for something they promise to deliver and then don’t? What would happen if you paid for something in a shop and they didn’t give it to you?

    It doesn’t depend on a SLA or a ToS or any other piece of paper. Generally it’s covered by law: Sale of Goods Acts, Representation of Goods and Services for Sale, even possibly fraud if you take money and then don’t provide.

    It’s not about obligations, morals or ethics, it’s about breaking the law.

    And 28 Annie is right. I’ve worked in publishing for 20 years. It is standard practice that if you bork an ad, or fail to publish it, you do the next one for free, or run an extra ad. Of course that’s the way everyone else does it around the world. We know Linden likes to buck the system…

    Now some suggestions: We could get more blog entries here if the limit were upped back u to the 500 it used to be, and if we had the ability to edit our own posts. That would stop the need for multiple posts until the comments are closed. I’ll see if I can post it on the JIRA, if my password hasn’t mysteriously changed yet again…

  54. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    ann.

    Firstly, you do NOT speak for the world. There is not a vast majority demandingg that LL let things stagnate. Most people wnat new features, and things fixed.

    Secondly, this update is ALL bugfixes. there are no new features here. So quit whining.

  55. Sammy says:

    On the matter of Voice in game:

    What’s it really good for besides yelling at n00bs to please remove their meat packages? I’ve got TS, Skype, Yahoo, Ventrilo…. you guys are WAY too late on this one and the implementation is no good to anyone but audible griefers.

  56. Vicky Nurmi says:

    Please, please, arreglad el main grid y después os ponéis con el beta grid. Please.

  57. Stick says:

    Beta Grid? how about making the main grid a little beta please 😉

  58. Ann Otoole says:

    oh did warkirby finally get allowed back in sl?

    welcome back warkirby

  59. Mart Juno says:

    Wonderfully put Jack Hathor …

    “Where in other environments the userbase cries out for more content, here were crying out for less content, and more stability first, bring us an overall plan to bring (back?) stability and performance, define the simple essentials, and make them work according to a plan and take your time to do so. You’re lucky enough to have very accepting and forgiving users.”

  60. batholomeos lundquist says:

    24 hours now, still the only thing that works is tp( oh wonder), money transactions dont work, search doesnt eather, etc. 24 hours LindenLab. are you intrested in us “small business owner” or would you like us to leave so you got more time to play with the big boys?
    This is so sad. Do your job Linden, so we can do ours!

  61. Kira says:

    Have to agree with Zimmy the last blog entry where some poster used up the 5 remaing post slots over some trival nonsense was crazy becuse he/she felt the thread was no longer useful…and wiht 500 instead of 100 you could get a better feel of who is happy or unhappy. Of course maybe thats not such a good idea…:P

    on topic: glad to see these mem leaks getting fixed, but im not sure what the reason is for getting rid of keep.dicard buttons onnotecards for the owners. is that a way to reduce “load”?

  62. tired of all the seemingly uncaring service?

    click my name 🙂

  63. alexia cournoyer says:

    …..reads the last couple of blogs posts and sniffs the air…..

    and realises the scent of customer goodwill has completely evaporated.

    LL, you realise of course that you’re in the corporate endgame now? Your application is crippled and you guys go home at 5pm???

    Crash and burn guys, crash and burn… not long now…

  64. Do we need any further functions while the actual grit is not working?

    Every time after “maintainance” the live grid is going very bad … so today – no search – no teleport – no linden$s are awailable – region is down …. and wat’s going on – new not working features are postet.

    I think LL should stop work on new features and put all there possibilitys in making the life-grid working …

    – in German:

    Braucht irgendjemand neue Funktionen, die so oder so nicht funktionieren?

    Jedesmal nachdem LL irgendetwas am System macht, funktioniert es nachher nicht – wie heute – keine Suche – kein Telefport – Regionen unten – keine Kontoanzeige …

    Es wird Zeit, dass Linden seine Politik aendert und ersteinmal das bestehende Grid dahin bringt, dass es fehlerfrei funktioniert!

    Liebe Gruesse aus Stuttgart/Deutschland

  65. alexia cournoyer says:

    and that should be ‘the last couple of LL blog posts and the responses’…

  66. Jordan Merricks says:

    * Fixed VWR-966: Minor memory leak in llfloaterpreferences.cpp and a tiny leak in llstatup.cpp

    Yay, they can fix a viewer bug this quick (granted we’re up to VWR-1120), yet VWR-27 (yes TWENTY SEVEN) is still unassigned… come on, there’s only 27 viewer bugs that are even assigned, and 617 that aren’t. This is rediculous.

    Also notice if you look at VWR-996, it says it’s unassigned as well…. I guess that shows how much LL actually cares about the jira when they basically say that it’s there so people can keep track of bugs and who is working on them…. so if it’s unassigned, and now fixed, does that mean this bug fixed itself? Wow that’s neat!

    On a bright note, I finally got my stipend while writing this.

  67. Ctarr Huszar says:

    Please, please, please, please, – FIX the search and pay our stipends and don’t charge us for classified ads if the search is down. Don’t tell us about the wonderful new beta grid – WE DO NOT CARE right now – tell us what is happening – EACH HOUR – tell us what is happening to the current problemss and stop trying to bury your own blog.

  68. ari blackthorne says:

    @24 – ditto

    Cripes… all these WHINERS – none even have a clue.
    All, hot air that just gets recycled again and again.

    Hey, thanks, Joshua. Your post is much appreciated by me and the silent majority. In fact, I appreciate what all of you do and I know that you guys want the bugs fixed as much as we do and it is simply a mater of prioritizing.

    There always will be whiners here. Oh well.

    They whine foe the sake of whining, but yet… they *stay*! they could easily run off to kaneva or sims or there.com – but noooo… they have too much fun in SL playing and out of SL whining because it’s not perfect LOL

    Keep up the good work Lindens.
    Keep up the same old whining you whiners. 🙂

  69. Zimmy Ginsberg says:

    OK, I’ve had an idea on how to make Linden listen, and fix what we want fixed.

    Let’s set up some form of trust fund, that exists to buy real shares in LL. We can have donate boxes throughout SL so people can drop in spare Lindens. Those can then be converted to real cash and used to buy shares in Linden Lab.

    If we buy enough, that will give us a voice at shareholder meetings, and the huge list of things people want fixed. They might poo poo for a while, but it would be a novel way to get the changes we want, and show our faith in the concept of SL. With the media watching at AGMs, that will give reasonable clout, and guarantee at least some response.

    As time goes by, and more shares are accumulated our power would rise: We could submit proposals, policies on fixing and hiring the right people, even maybe changing the CEO if they fail to listen.

    It would be easy to set up systems to vote on issues, maybe via a Group, so such issues can be put forward. Mechanisms exist, it should be easy to implement.

    However, as a Brit living in France, I am not ideally placed to set up the US legal vehicle for this. Any takers?

  70. Chris Anthony says:

    Wow – all I can continue to say is that I am SOOO glad I never signed up for a premium account.

    OK – I lied – I’ll say more. This “free” user has money in SL, bought land, has a shop & supports (correction) USED TO support many other clubs & businesses. I hardly shop at all anymore – what’s the point? My shop? Gone. What’s the point? I’ve had thousand of L$ worth of inventory just vanish. This place just goes from bad to worse. A simple “database” fix results in major screw ups and we’re gonna get excited about 1.17? You do make me laugh !!

    oh – majorly off topic. My most sincere apologies. Preview of SL? Who gives a stuff? No way am I beta-testing a new version on that grid – I do enough of that already on the live grid!

  71. Chris Anthony says:

    @ 50 – I think that’s a great idea!! And while you’re saving your pennies to invest in LL I own a bridge in New York and am a motivated seller? Care to make an offer? lol

    Seriously though, I think I’ll just wait for the competition to get up & running & then bail. This lot ain’t getting any more of my “real” $$ for quite some time to come !!

  72. Celty Westwick says:

    I’m not a wild eyed Linden basher. I love Second Life. However, I do have to agree with the opinions and positions expressed in the “Open Letter” issued some time ago with a lot of media attention.

    Unfortunately it does not seem to have been taken to heart, not causing a sufficient change in operations and priorities. That letter pleaded – in a reasoned and polite manner – for Mr. Rosedale and his subordinates to fix the basic problems of tp’s, inventory, stability, transactions, search, and decent sim/grid performance. The letter asked for these things to be paramount – making SL work on a consistent basis.

    While they may have done some work toward this, clearly it has not been enough. We still are getting Bells and Whistles – voice, sculpties, the new sky thing! While the basics continue to fail.

    Please, a moratorium on that stuff until each week is not a disaster and SL displays the asked for fundamental stability and trustworthy functionality we really need.

  73. Usagi Musashi says:

    “* Fixed VWR-364: Viewer memory leak”
    Are you sure of just saything this to keep us quite? I believe it when I see it!

  74. Usagi Musashi says:

    Are we ever going to get paid? Its almost weekend right? and most of the staff will be going to be off duty. And you guys released a beta viewer, instead of 1.) fitting search. 2.) giving those that did not get paid! WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU GUYS DOING!

  75. JuliaAnn Amat says:

    Um…Okay,

    1) Bug Fixes = GREAT

    2) However, people going home at 5 like little corporate yes men/women while the product is completely discombobulated and virtually unusable is not okay.

    As a paying customer who has spent plenty of real US dollars in the game/product – I expect somebody to give a good *insert expletive of your choice* about the fact that I am and have paid for something I can’t use.

    YOU lot broke it, aparrently so I am at a loss to know why you can’t fix it in a reasonable amount of time.

    Also others are right, you need two blogs or two pages or two something. The right hand doesn’t know what the left hand is doing and it makes EVERYONE working at LL look like idiots.

    I hope some of you techies are looking for other jobs because at the rate this is going, you won’t have one with LInden because Linden will be DEAD.

  76. Although it pains me to make such a large comparison, Linden Labs have repeated the problems IBM and to some extent Microsoft have made.

    When IBM set out to beat Microsoft at its own game they made hundreds of thousands of lines of code in OS/2. The classic example of too many cooks spoiling the broth – too many developers tried to tag on too many things and the end result was a product that didn’t work properly, never succeeded in getting a solid foothold in the market, and ultimately died.

    To some extent Microsoft have made the same error with Windows Vista but at least they’re in an unassailable position to do so. Vista is another thing with lots tagged on that doesn’t need to be there and despite being “the safest Windows” holes continue to be found in it.

    Which brings me to Linden Labs. A company that is still expanding can’t afford to keep doing this. The worst possible thing happened this week, stipends weren’t paid to premium customers. Since this wasn’t an advertised or intended change, can premium customers sue or refuse to pay Linden fees because Linden are in breach of contract for failing to provide the promised service?

    There are not just one but TWO main grids, and then TWO beta client and then different OS systems on top of that… the project is simply getting too unwieldy to manage. Too many resources are being spent on developing features when the core system, the background for these new features, is becoming more and more unstable. To make things worse, it looks like the reason it’s becoming more unstable is that outdated code can’t keep pace with an ever more demanding database load. Developing further features, in ever more diverse formats is going to hinder this, not help is. Only when your core product is fully stable will you be able to stick more things to it. Trying to stick more things to it now is causing other things to fall off, or stop working, or vanish altogether.

    We’re not asking for anything more than is reasonable. We pay for a service, and we want that service. Anything that jeopardizes or damages this service, such as the development of lots and lots of new code that – by its nature – is bound to have problems of its own, that you’re developing with the intention of finding somewhere to “glue” it on to the unstable main core… we don’t want that.

    When the core is stable, develop away. Knock yourself out to your hearts content. But until then we don’t need Betas with and without voice, for PC, Mac, Linux and anything else you can think of. We need a MAIN product that all development efforts are focussed into making totally stable. Only AFTER that has been done should further developments be worked on.

    Is this really too much to ask?

  77. Wilhelm Neumann says:

    quote from #33 Jack Hathor
    ORIGINALLY POSTED UNDER THE RIGHT TOPIC, BUT WHILE TYPING IT USAGI TOOK ALL(!!) AVAILABLE SLOTS!!!!!!

    I dont normally post on blogs (hate the style) but out of respect for others trying to add comments before the 100 imposed limit is hit can a filter be installed to prevent deliberate spamming of the blog for the purpose of closing the comments?

    The blog post in question was an obvious attempt to shut of comments which is a malicious use and abuse of this format and unfair to the community

    Can Linden Lab fix this please? even if half the posts are cranky? lol

  78. Any chance we can get a blog post on the stat of the grid as of right now?

    Love hearing how your testing everything on Beta. How about telling us about what is broken at your end ?

  79. Airforcefreak Oh says:

    WHY DON’T YOU JUST STOP SCREWING WITH SL ONCE YOU GUYS GET IT SO IT IS WORKING OK YOU SCREW WITH IT SO IT SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU LEAVE SL THE FUCK ALONE UNLESS IT IS BROKEN

  80. Vortex says:

    /me yawns at the same posters bitching at LL, please change your blogposting macro it gets boring.

  81. Tomas Gandini says:

    Been to the Beta Grid.

    Landed in the welcome center. Started to walk and ended up walking about 20 meters underground. The welcome center is set right on The corner of 4 sims. Crossing sim boundries is still rather hazzardous.

    Went to an empty sim. Nice simulation of a movie in slow motion. That is after the interminable amount of time it took to rez.

    None of the above is new. It’s already here on the main grid.

    Oh, yeah! Interesting side note:
    Saw Dan Linden playing games in a sandbox. I guess he has nothing important to do.

  82. Bianca says:

    To all those who don’t want LL to do fixes to the Beta grid, but work on the live grid instead, are you aware of the saying “Too many cooks spoil the broth”? There is a limit to how many people you can put onto a problem (and the current ones do seem to all be related) before they start getting in each other’s way and becoming less efficient.

    Are you also suggesting that it is better for LL to make changes to the main grid without testing those changes first? That is, after all, what the Beta grid is for. The idea is to do user testing of changes, bug fixes, etc. before implementing them on the main grid. Even that doesn’t prevent some problems from slipping through, but I can only imagine how much worse the problems would be if no Beta testing was done.

    Fixing bugs on the Beta grid has nothing to do with fancy features, and everything to do with creating a more stable product.

  83. Raudf Fox says:

    *chews her lip* Yeah… I’d rather be on the Beta Grid right now. The main grid is snafu’d and unusable as far as I’m concerned. Fortunately, I didn’t pay too much for my classified.. and ya’ll didn’t bother deducting the directory fee anyways. So for me the outta pocket would only be 20L for the classified.

    I also realize that there are TWO teams working the different ends. Right now, it’d be nice to put the two together, since the one can’t seem to handle it.

    Otherwise, WOOT on the memory leak fixes! I will be glad to see those rolled out, since I’m more about multi-tasking!

  84. Fritz Otoole says:

    Concratulations for your brilliant work on a new version .. while search was down the last 24 hours, tp didnt work for half a day, and whole pieces of land (including mine) simply have been disappeared.

    Go on like that, your customer love it!

    I recognized a new icon at the friends list .. no idea with what function .. but I am sure that those are the features your customers like. Who needs a stable grid? Who needs search? Who needs tp – people should walk instead thats good for health!

    Good Job!

    Tomas: let any Lindens play at the sandbox .. it makes no difference if they play in the sandbox or play with features instead of solving problems!

  85. Cat Gisel says:

    This sounds really neat and promising. YAY!

    Maybe this is a sign that there will be less “testing” on the main grid, hehe.

    Untamable, I am sure there is more to it than that…most companies I have read about have a test area that is almost as big as the main…and some have a beta area even before the test area where some people can go. I don’t think even Linden can afford that many computers based on the way it has things set up. I am no techie however…yet I can’t think even the Lindens are this blind…but Keep trying Untamable, it’s got to change soon….don’t give up 🙂

  86. Usagi Musashi says:

    Well they are getting weeky pay to those that did not recevie it. Now lets get search fixed before the weekends starts.

  87. Note to those complaining: please look up “Brooks’ Law”. They already have over two-thirds of their development people working on bug fixes… and much of what’s in this beta is… BUG FIXES!

    Some bugs are, alas, difficult to correct; fixing them requires major familiarity with the code. Others are small and relatively self-contained (like one I reported–if a sim is full, I can’t offer a TP to someone already on the sim, even though just moving from one point to another on the same sim won’t increase the count of people there). It takes time for all these people being moved to bug fixing to learn enough about the code to fix major, fundamental bugs–that’s one of the reasons for Brooks’ Law, “Adding people to a late software project makes it later.” Would you rather these bugs go unfixed, given that these newly-added or moved developers haven’t yet gotten the deep knowledge required to fix major bugs?

  88. @61 While I can appreciate that fixes on the beta grid may one day translate into fixes on the main grid, that isn’t a given (especially with the number of times things change around) and personally I’d rather they didn’t work on ANYTHING new, any changes – just work on fixing what is already there. Working out where the system is collapsing and shoring it up. Inevitably ANY change is going to put more strain on the core, and to me it looks like the core can’t take it any more. Fix that, and it will then be able to deal with additional things.

    Take sculpted prims for example. Old prims only needed an x,y,z size, a shape, and an x,y,z position with a texture. Sculpties require a map which is then worked on mathematically to calculate what it looks like. If something went wrong transferring the old texture it simply didn’t show. If it goes wrong with a sculpty, that sculpty is broken completely.

    I don’t know if anyone has ever gone into the client menu and chosen to display the diagnostic window, but maybe people should… it’s very enlightening as to the vast number of things going on and going wrong.

  89. Bianca says:

    /me wonders whether people think the Beta grid is just for their entertainment when upgrades are being made to the main grid.

  90. Airforcefreak Oh says:

    i can’t stand how stupid linden labs is. Why don’t they just fix the main grid and leave it alone. and stop screwing with it

  91. Usagi Musashi says:

    Some really do experiement withthe beta game. Testing the beta game is a great way to learn whats going on and ( hopefully )fix issues and bugs before it goes live.

  92. Domino Marama says:

    There’s a lot of features been under development for a long time, mono, updated havok, and it’s understandable that bought in technologies such as Windlight may be a stronger codebase in some areas than the current SL. While I agree in sentiment with the open letter, I think getting at least mono and a new havok in before locking down into (almost) total bug fix mode makes a lot of sense.

    What really does need improving is the testing before release onto main grid. We never see posts saying “server side beta update” with a list of what has been changed. Having a clue what to test when would help beta users and perhaps avoid a lot of the issues.

    Once the main grid is stable, it should be the exception, not the rule that we will have problems after updates.

  93. Chronic Skronski says:

    I didn’t read the post. I just wanted to post something off-topic and snarky so I could see my name on the blog.

  94. Nulflux Negulesco says:

    Rather than trying to convince you guys to be patient while LL fixes these issues I’m going to sit back and laugh because you are stressing out about things you cannot control and think that saying nasty things to the SL developers is going to help the situation. Have you ever thought that maybe the issues you are having are the result of an LL employee who got sick of hearing your incessant demands to fix this and that? Do you think they like being shown such disrespect? Most of you need to take a step back, breathe deeply and think about how you express yourslef to the developers.

  95. Droopy says:

    ok here comes the usual: 1) Fix Search still not fixed, 2) Transactions are buggered now aswell as in you cant buy anything atm well most of the times anyways…. and when you guys talk about putting a crack team to fix search… give us some updates whats going on… and maybe explain the crackteam broke transactions aswell??? JUST FIX THE STUFF ALRIGHT

  96. Walentine Andersson says:

    Well, all this new programs but why not try and fix the problem you do have. Right now search, upload, payment dont work.

    When will be who pay for this charade every mouth get something back?

  97. jamie Cheeky says:

    great news about the beta grid …..however SL is borked and no message has been posted at all today!!?? I now have no money no way to teleport from one location and no way to search for anyone to IM them about anything if they arent on my friends list…..this isnt quite the quality i expected when I paid!

  98. Tami Amat says:

    Well, I don’t usually come post, but I’m a little concerned here. I realize search is still being worked on, but now I cannot teleport via the map, inventory or anything. I’m stuck on my land (which would be ok if I didn’t have somewhere to be in SL). How long will all of this take to resolve? Do you guys have people working after hours to keep SL up and running smooth? Also, with the tipspend, when will that be delivered? I know you provide us a service and work hard, but we do pay you and without us, you’d have no company. It’s important to keep up with the good service you already provide! Please help us out and fix this up please! Thanks! 🙂

  99. Droopy says:

    oh and @ 72) sucking up to SL developers wont help much either will it?

    Second if you run a buisniss and you screw up you will get angry customers thats how it works period… because LL IS a buisnis… so this is natural… wouldnt it be awkward if something goes wrong and everybody would be big smiling saying: Ok we will just sit back and wait till something gets fixed… ppl need to press the issue man its how it works.. specially when you have money invested in something period… LL knows this aswell. then you have people like you that are basically just trying to support LL thats ok its your right, i do like SL and yes i know problems will happen and keep happening in the future but this does not mean i will not press the issue when it pops up.

  100. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    PLEASE! FGS! Why all the damn hoopla? Cant even DO ANYTHING in SL right now. Who CARES??

    You cant even keep the current version working PROPERLY NOW!

    @#72 Sorry I pay with my hard earned REAL WORLD money. I EXPECT to get to use the damn service!

    Unbelievable!

  101. Droopy says:

    @ 76, your damn right!!!

  102. Cocoanut Koala says:

    Fix the main grid.

    If you’re not able to fix the main grid, at least talk about why not.

    coco

  103. alexia cournoyer says:

    It is quite possible the ‘play’ you saw dan linden doing on the beta grid was a series of tests to confirm a particular fix or fixes.

    or

    he’s building/testing code on the fly which is outside of the proposed release but has somehow (very easily i would suspect) managed to get it loaded.

    I have no idea what this linden does so no idea which is more likely. But either is more likely than just killing time until home time.. i hope

  104. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    Sorry but the way this place is run is like The Detroit Lions team FGS!!

  105. ButterflyWings Jie says:

    Hey LL ,

    Great work on the maintence ,

    I sign in game no Linden Dollars, Can’t tp no where , No inventory working , 😦

    When you do maintence aren’t you suposed to fix problems not break 50 more

    then you wonder why your ratings are going down hill, DUH! WAKE up smell the coffee this is why !!!!!

  106. Tami Amat says:

    @72: Some people run businesses here in SL and lost revenue is a big pain in the butt (more so loss of money…REAL money). So understandably people are going to get outraged when our request for some stability isn’t met. Nevertheless name calling won’t get anyone anywhere fast. Though I have to agree that anger is starting to pop into my “feelings” of things. I’ve been charged for classified ads I’ve paid for that have gone unseen, no body can search out and come visit my business, I can’t tp anywhere to get some much needed supplies for my business.

    I’d have to think that #72 poster may be one who doesn’t pay each month? Heck…I chose to pay over $40 REAL MONEY each month, so yeah…I’m getting a little ticked off myself at this point.

    So what…let people have their feelings and express them. We don’t need a volunteer blog moderator do we? Or are their openings for that? Hey, I’ll sign up…at least I’ll be keeping busy! lol

    Please Lindens!!!!! We really need a fix this time!

  107. RobbyRacoon says:

    Ummm… You guys (LL) *do* realize that the *current* version is just completely borked, right? I mean, it’s not usable, it’s so bad.

  108. Taft Worsley says:

    Seems i have read these same grips over and over for a year now – maybe its time to organize – and rather then whinning – let do something about it – the single user on here hasn’t a chance agaist the idiots that run this game, one person can’t fight city hall, but an orgainzed group can not be denied – the potential financial loss to this company would be too great and put the squezze to them – so 10 or 20K of users can make a difference, if the sl residents, particluarlly the paying residents, dont do something about this it will continue – i have seen it a year now and as some post reflect – they will sweep this under the rug with their PR machine. Kick them in there wallet and i bet you, they cave and start following the advice of the user base – if you dont organize – dont bother posting your whinning here – because you chose to do nothing. Contact me in world and lets start getting this together so that this BS will come to an end. Because i for one am tired of investing in a project who does nothing but slap the face of its paying users.

  109. Martini says:

    This highlights the issue of off topic posting, you can’t really blame people for doing it when there isn’t a place to complain or indeed make longer more contructive discussion. It will concentrate the complaints here. This topic was about upcoming bug fixes, admittedly a little tactless when the thing is dropping to bits at the time, but it was about that. From the LL perspective I wouldn’t want my possitive announcements being rained on by all the negative comments but they can stop that, by providing adequate space and responding to, thus drawing attention to, the places where they have made a negative, bad news entry.

    This looks to me like a person running from room to room following someone and trying to make a point only to find the person has moved rooms again (By that I mean LL shut one blog entry and move to the next), the persuer dosn’t care that the person a) isn’t listening or b) is now thinking about something else entirely, the complaint keeps getting made.

    LL can help keep the comments in the right place by responding a little more in those entries.

    Ok that being said, any bug fixes, especially memory leaks are welcome. But I will add my voice to those who ask that the new features get pushed even further back in the queue for the advancement of stability. You can answer your critics in a couple of ways, either prove them wrong (unlikely here) or take away their reason to critisize…..that’s LL’s best bet.

  110. The Todd says:

    I’m usually pretty laid back and patient when it comes to issues with SL (and still am) but I am seriously hoping for some new competiton to come about soon. Entropia… sucks. Still I like SL (or else I wouldn’t be here), just hope things improve at some point. I DO want to continue to see new features while bugs are being fixed and I think thats the way most people feel — the vocal minority makes it not seem that way.

    So to wrap it up, keep up the hard work guys but I’d like to see some better QA going on.

    Ok Usagi, go ahead and fill up the blog with garbage posts now ;p

  111. Wulfe Bain says:

    *notes the distinct lack of yellow boxed comments admist the loud messages being sent to LL*

    The silence from LL is deafening….

  112. miika says:

    Ahh, the joys of another downgrade wednesday. Version numbers go up, functionality goes down. By the time we reach v2.0, we’ll be pining for the good old days of Commodore 64’s, ZX Spectrums, TRS-80’s.

    It’s time to take all these crack coders you claim to have and get them cracking bugs from existing stuff, freezing features in development until you have a stable platform to roll them out on. You can’t seriously expect to release new features onto a bugged platform and have them work, the chances of cascade bugs is tremendous.

    The more cynical side of me thinks Linden rolls out these pretty shiny shiny things in order to distract people about the broken system they’re going to be rolled out on. The problem is, the userbase *lets* them get away with it. Second Life – Bread And Circuses Edition, coming to a sim near you every wednesday.

    Is it coming time when advertisers all sit back and boycott paying Linden anything for advertisements? Should all premium users downgrade their accounts to match the downgrades in service? Given the state of the grid since 1.13.* was rolled out, and the concentration on rolling out new things when we all know the grid is going under for the second time, it’s not like anyone would be *worse* off than they already are. Everyone is losing money, except for Linden. If you’re going to lose money, might as well do it in such a way Linden doesn’t make a profit in the process, right?

    The *only* way the userbase can persuade Linden Labs to get fixing the bugs and to quit wasting everyone’s money with the steady deterioration of the service is to hit them where it hurts – in the pocket. They keep saying they’ll look into things, but they have no *motivation* to make good on it.

    How much does Linden make anyways when someone buys a sim, paying initial setup fees and then tier, then it folds because no-one can get to that sim and Linden can then recycle that sim for another setup fees set?

    The userbase needs to stop buying into Linden’s bread and circuses, needs to stop being fibbed off with “town hall meetings” that would make a politician bow down in awe at how well the wool is pulled over so many people’s eyes – The only way change will come about is when/if the userbase manages to create a situation that forces Linden *to* start paying *true* attention to the concerns of the userbase, and have to address the bugs *seriously*, not just when they can spare someone from playing with their pet project(s) in Beta grid.

    For those who point to the changelog above as proof of bug fixes, most of them (if not all) look to be client-side. There’s rarely any mention of any server side changes, and that seems to be where things fall down the most – asset servers being unavailable, latency issues, packet loss, sim performance itself. Until Linden starts being more transparent about *where* those bugs are present and are being fixed in, the best assumption from available data is akin to someone using Bondo to patch the bodywork of a car – while the chassis is rusting to pieces. Looks good, don’t mean a thing.

    Whilst it is good that Linden is fixing some bugs, they always seem to be fixing minor ones, rarely the showstopper ones – and for some reason, they seem incapable of rolling back to a previous revision when their latest and greatest downgrade fails miserably.

    Freeze the shiny shiny, quit with the bread and circuses, fix the system people are paying good money for. Great ideas are welcomed – but we’d really like you to finish them and make them all work *BEFORE* retasking your “crack team” to the next piece of cosmetic fluff we’re all supposed to go “ohhhhh, pretty!” over in the hopes we *won’t* notice nothing *else* works!

  113. Zimmy Ginsberg says:

    Any news on search, now it’s 5:37pm Friday night? Is that it, have Linden Lab shut for the weekend and we won’t get search fixed till Monday, or the other db issues?

    I think the people who mangled the db work should be chained to their desks over the weekend until they fix what they borked. And then they should be fired.

    I mean it’s pretty simple. Something you have done since you let more people on the grid a week or so ago, and the 1.16 update, and the db work has severely crippled the system. So the answer lies somewhere in those changes. So before you slot in 1.17 and make it even more difficult to dtermine where the problem lies, look very c arefully at all that. It’s somewhere in the work you have done: systems, network, the new code, maybe or maybe not the sculptie code itself, the db work mangle. So look at it. If you can’t fix it, roll back, take the max users back down to 38k, and then look at what you are doing, and implement each thing step by step. Keep the grid workble and usable.

    We’re used to you Lindenening everything, but the new borks from “fixes” are getting worse each time and damaging the grid and goodwill more and more. Show us you have guts and admit you can make errors, and fix the ruddy stuff, and tell us what it is you are doing, to both keep us informed, and know what to llok at and test.

  114. Annecha Jun says:

    Maybe you should only update every 14th day so that players at least can have one clean week to play. Everytime theres an update several issues comes after and it takes days to clear up.
    I just tried to update some targas. I payed for nothing. Theres nothing there. Only grey.
    😦

  115. Samantha Chandler says:

    Stop them before they patch again!

  116. Mark C says:

    I can’t believe the variety of issues I’ve experienced over the past 7 days. It’s unprecedented:

    tp failure, painfully slow login, map not working, search not working, purchases failing, lindex exchange failing, client crashes…

    I was hoping that the Wednesday maintenance would fix it, but I just logged in and could get no L$ balance, nor could I see the world map.

    You’re really sucking it up.

  117. It be nice if we get a update before 2:59 AM to what is going on!!!!!

  118. Archer Braun says:

    I hate for this to sound snippy or petty, but the simple truth is that I have no interest in assisting with any more beta-testing until the main grid problems have been resolved.
    In addition, while LL employs a number of intelligent and hard-working people, those in the PR/Community Relations Dept. are being hamstrung when posts like this are made while major problems are being encountered on the grid.
    It’s simply counterproductive to talk about new features, when folks are upset about the lack of stability in-world.
    I feel for those folks, especially Daniel Linden…whom I think took the heat for a very misguided instruction to post about keeping SL safe.
    I hope the good work at LL continues…and I certainly hope it improves in the area of public relations and corporate communications.

  119. mikki young says:

    If its any hope only my sims on the New continent are having the search ect bugs …. my sim on the second mainland appears to be working fine …Kusanagi … You might try getting ver to the second continent and perhaps search will work for u??

  120. Wake UP says:

    Thank you for fixing the texture picker. 🙂

  121. ButterflyWings Jie says:

    hey now they did fix the money , and did fix the login issues / now fix the search and mapping LL…

    I know one thing if this isn’t fixed today I’m downgrading my acct. why pay for something I can’t have fun and enjoy in 😦

  122. Paulo Dielli says:

    I am normally a very positive person, but search not working SO LONG is unacceptable. All businesses in sl are hurting big time.

    I never ever saw such a mess as since the last ‘small update’. Unbelievable Lindes, get a grip!

  123. mcgeeb Gupte says:

    Maybe Search will be up AFTER the weekend, lol. I think they left early Thursday Afternoon and won’t be back till Monday. No word on what’s going on with Search for hours.

  124. Korena Starbrook says:

    I suspect some sort of catastrophic failure – no way fixing search could take this long.

    /me sighs

  125. Tabu Laguna says:

    Interesting; my first posting got deleted.

    Having issues with the beta testing grid. It’s worse off than the current version of SL. Textures not loading, search function is down, I can’t TP, nothing but grey goo everywhere, I keep freezing midflight and continuing into grids I didn’t know existed….. I really hope this gets fixed soon.

  126. Usagi Musashi says:

    If you noticed the population raised over 80,000; over the past 3 to 5 days……Now if this is any indicator then we are all in deep poop in a few weeks. Weekend is apond us and we ads are not working search is broken Teleports and Group Im are toally useless at times.

  127. Focker Carbenell says:

    I paid for many “in-game” official advertising, and “show in search” land – to Linden.
    However, in the last 2 days search was “off”, so i lost 1/15 off my money.
    Now, i ask: Linden will refund me for an service i paid for and it was not working?
    I suppose not.
    Linden will compensate people who paid for “PREMIUM ACCOUNT” and does not experience this “game” for last 2 days.
    IN MY COUNTRY IS ILLEGAL CHARGE FOR A SERVICE NOT PROVIDED.

  128. S.P. says:

    BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS LL BUGS BUGS LL LL BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS LL BUGS BUGS LL BUGS LL LL LL LL LL LL BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS LL BUGS BUGS LL LL BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS LL BUGS BUGS LL BUGS LL LL LL LL LL LL BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGSBUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS LL BUGS BUGS LL LL BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS LL BUGS BUGS LL BUGS LL LL LL LL LL LL BUGS BUGS BUGS BUGS

    Thanks I feel better now.

  129. Protogenes Ewing says:

    I feel that yes, they messed up big time on this one, but it would go a long way to smoothing things over if they told us more often what the issue was and what is being done to fix it.

    Telling us a beta is up somewhere is a slap in the face.

  130. S.P. says:

    Ohh I don’t know if my comment will show up, apparently they’re being MODERATED. YES! Let’s MODERATE COMMENTS but NOT ANYTHING ELSE. IQ = 22 Yay!

  131. Bettina Wunderlich says:

    Anyway: The new beta-viewer is nice. Well… I was landing naked in a bush, cant move one meter. But then 10 per second direct to hell… and 10 guys was shouting anything in my ears… nice. I love voice now. THANK YOU for this “feature”.

    But well: I think now truely, I will delete my Premium -Acc and let my 200 EUR (260 USD) per Month in my RL. Then I do it like the others Users: Fly around, grief a bit here and there, give a shit of the community and dont waste my time with thoughts about bugs or other senseless coderthings. What happends? I dont need SL – SL needs peoples with ambitiones, but in moment I see no way to do anything in this bork here. Half of my time I cant rez, cant TP, cant move, cant exchange money, cant pay or sell – I am really angry!
    Staff: Fix the Maingrid, dont waste your time and my money with new “features” or you will got in future many time und no money.

  132. Still find it odd they keep making new versions of Second Life using broken code from the current one. Usually most software developers make a version that is pretty stable, release it, update it until it is near bullet proof then keep it in production for a long time while they make a newer version with new stuff based on the previous near bullet proof code.
    You know, instead of building a new house on old broken foundation. Create a solid foundation and you will create a solid platform.

    Anyway hope you guys get SL working by the weekend. Still pretty useless as is.

  133. Ann Otoole says:

    still no search so this is 2 days of wasted classified advertising.

    not gonna lay off and be easy on this one. better prep those refunds.

  134. Usagi Musashi says:

    The First look client FPS seems lower then the standard Client. But with the game so unstable we don`t know if that caused but the client or LLABS servers.

  135. Usagi Musashi says:

    Ann, as you know from time to time LLABS break the Search and it takes alot of time to get it restored. The sooner Llabs puts a all out attack to fix this problem its not going to make them look any better in future investers EYES.

  136. Day Oh says:

    It is DISTURBING how slowly these final blog comments are coming in…

    And I keep seeing people saying they are thinking about using the court system if LL doesn’t offer refunds. But have you heard of ARBITRATION? 😀 Yep, we all agreed to arbitration in the TOS.

    Anyways, keep ya head up, Linden Lab!

  137. blayneUK Nelson says:

    I have given up with the lindens and the abuse-manager… 10 emails i have sent…. still no replay…

    I have been a victim of cyber seizure, i held a second life account. for over 2 years, and i came to log onto the game on monday 31st April 2007, to find out my account has been disabled… thinking a lot of hacking has taken place on sl… maybe they have disabled my account as a precaution.

    I called the UK Helpline only to be told that i need to email abuse-manager@lindenlabs.com… guess what… no reply has been heard since… i even emailed them again … but nothing.

    I spoke to a friend of mine after creating an alternative account on sl… only to be horrified to find out … that my account has been banned due to serial griefing…

    As i was informed 2 mentors filed a abuse report for firing weapons… which is a load of nonsense.

    I take part in roleplays in GOR and that area is combat enabled … that would be the only place on sl where i would fire weapons

    I do know the terms of service. but this is an abuse towards me..

    1. for recieving no warnings prior.. had i been done for griefing
    2. lack of customer support from the Lindens
    3. Am i suppose to shut up… and put up with this abuse
    4. And who will reimburse me for the 10k i held in that account along with the numberous items i have bought over the time on the game???????????????????

  138. Obviously you people aren’t really READING the post before you comment.

    Either that or you are incapable of doing ANYTHING other than whine, moan, and complain.

    Allow me to spell this out of you, in plain simple terms so you can understand: THEY DID NOT INTRODUCE *ANY* NEW FEATURES IN THIS BETA BUILD! THEY FIXED BUGS!!!

    What is wrong with you people?! Bug fixes are GOOD THINGS!!

    More than that, it’s a GOOD THING that they are TESTING their bug fixes in the beta grid FIRST before deploying them on the main grid.

    Or did you forget your past complaints about changes not being adequately tested?

    Probably, since it seems all you people know how to do is complain, and you do it so much you can’t remember what you’ve complained about in the past.

    Please extract your heads from your posteriors and READ the post before commenting, and try using a little common sense. Just as you don’t want a dentist doing open heart surgery, you don’t want their graphic artists, viewer developers, or janitors (it seems like some of you expect this) working on the backend (grid) hardware and software. Let them do their respective jobs.

    Good luck, Lindens.

  139. Orochimaru K says:

    Can you imagine if Google went down for 2 days? ALL the people who pay for google advertising and site slots would instantly get a refund and have a step by step real-time update as to the problems and solutions google were undergoing. Why is it a company who has well over $1,000,000 USD not L$ go through its banks daily cant create a solid engine with concrete foundations and have the simplest of functions such as search be totally unusable for 2 days with not only NO attempt to fix but no update or reasoning atall, you should be automatically giving refunds to everyone and keeping us posted and working double time to address these issues, your incompetance is showing lately more than ever before LL. I think maybe it’s time you let the residents/customers/creators take more control of SL let we the people have a say in what does and doesnt happen in the future such as throwing this windlight and voice and ALL other stupidly pointless pieces of crap back in the box for a much much much later date.

    Right now you should focus on one thing and one thingly ONLY and that is creating a solid client even if it takes months and months nobody atall will complain and you will find it will be better in the longrun and you are more like to have more customers rather than 6million accounts and no more than 40k people online consecutively. Sort your sh!t out LL I bet 90% of the staff there are near nervous breakdown because youre making them do stuff that isnt needed and they know damn well it isnt. SCREW 2updates” and focus on making a stable client that you can THEN and only then build upon.

    What is the point atall in writing over broken code? thats why youve become a joke worldwide on all number of websites and blogs and reviews and articles and the term “Lindened” has been coined for something that is broken supposedly being fixed but being more broken than before, If my company was anything like yours I would truly be ashamed.

    Here’s a thought why not listen to the residents for once?
    Let us have a say in this matter because dont forget WE PAY YOUR WAGES! and if that isnt enough WE BUILT SECOND LIFE! you create the code (all be it a bad one) you support the servers WE built the damn world and evrything in it.

    Our concerns are the most important not some random geek who thinks clouds will be cool or the odd couple of people who will make extra L$ off of voice sex, but the vast majority that wants a stable environment to work/build/play/relax/escape in you’re fast becoming a fascist regime doing whatever you want whenever you want.

    If you want I will be more than happy to build you all some hearing aids so you can hear the voices of the thousands of angry residents? Seems like you need them as youre either deaf/ignorant or both.

    FIX THE CLIENT BEORE ADDING MORE THINGS!

    (Ill guarantee this is ignored…….. again!…. how about we just all bombard LL with Emails & Phonecalls until their eyes and ears bleed with it all?)

  140. Celty Westwick says:

    Err Day Oh – please read the last court order on the current suit with Linden Labs and Mr. Rosedale. The TOS was tossed (sorry bad pun) in federal court as unenforceable, grossly unfair , and not worth the paper or pixels it is written on, and the requirement for arbitration was trshed in scathing terms, by the issuing federal judge.

    Further Mr. Rosedale was found to be personally open to liability for Linden Labs actions.

  141. miika says:

    We might have agreed to arbitration … But I doubt someone like Andy Cuomo over in NY did … How much real money do you think collectively needs to be paid to Linden with so much breaking before NYOAG or someone else jumps in? Sony BMG didn’t think much of the risks either with the rootkits on music CD’s.

    Linden Labs is trying to float age verification to protect Linden Labs (anyone who thinks it’s actually any use to protect kids has forgotten just how sneaky kids can be at bypassing things, in practical terms it’s simply Linden Labs being able to claim due diligence) – Think they have anything in place to protect them from getting slammed by AGs for consumer affairs violations?

  142. Ann Otoole says:

    LL never tests anything shadow. grow up.

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