First Look Update: 58603

A quick update to First Look: Render Pipeline Improvements fixing a few key bugs. First Look 1.13.3.58603 is now available for download.

NOTE: The name of the executable in the last release was inadvertently set to SecondLifePreveiw.exe, which caused some residents with copied shortcuts to run the old version. This is fixed and the executable is again SecondLifeFirstLook.exe. We strongly suggest that you uninstall any existing Second Life (FIRSTLOOK) before installing this version, and delete any remaining shortcuts.

Also, we added some release notes that we missed regarding some (very) old particle systems.

A few people have noticed a flashing “rainbow” effect with full bright images on some cards. So far we have found that updating to the latest drivers has fixed the problem. If you have the latest drivers and still have this bug, please post here (and of course please provide your hardware specs). NOTE: For practical reasons, it is not possible for us to support anything but the latest available drivers for a given video card.

-Steve

Release Notes for Second Life 1.13.3(58603) March 1, 2007

Changes:
(Note: this change was introduced several versions ago be we forgot to put this in the release notes)
* The following 4 particle commands have been deprecated for some time, and no longer work:
** llMakeExplosion http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlMakeExplosion
** llMakeFire http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlMakeFire
** llMakeFountain http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlMakeFountain
** llMakeSmoke http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlMakeSmoke
** Please use llParticleSystem (http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlParticleSystem) instead.
* Set the executable name back to SecondLifeFirstLook.exe (1.13.3(58537) inadvertently set it to SecondLifePreveiw.exe

Fixes:
* Fixed a bug with image requests, should reduce the latency when loading uncached images
* Rediced frame rate spikes when spinning.
* Fixed bad normals on tapered geometry.
* Fix for bump maps not taking effect immediately.
* Fix for animated texture coordinates not resetting when animation stops (slingo bug).

About Steve Linden

I am a Senior Software Engineer at Linden Lab. Mostly I work on improvements to the graphics engine used in Second Life, but I also have my hand in many other aspects of the Second Life code including user interface and internationalization.
This entry was posted in Announcements & News, New Releases. Bookmark the permalink.

124 Responses to First Look Update: 58603

  1. Hey Steve, quick feature request — would it be possible to get a shortcut to changing draw distance in the Client or Tools menu?
    Since this is the render pipeline improvements, maybe this would be a good time to add a shortcut like that! Thanks!

  2. Atlwolf says:

    Do we need to uninstall if we didn’t install the “preview” version?

  3. Aodhan McDunnough says:

    One more request related to Kamilion

    With the serious memory leak existing in all clients can we have the minimum draw distance lowered to say, 32?

    I also would like a switch that would make “clear cache” automatic on every startup (switch would be default off).

  4. Lina Pussycat says:

    Found a bug with this Client Already. Alpha’s arnt being properly applied when using Select Texture. This may be all textures however…. Let me look… Yes confirmed this is all textures. When trying to apply a texture to a single side of an object it applies that texture to the entire object rather then that one face.

  5. Zach Parvenu says:

    I noticed that shortcut problem…smart…smart..LOL

  6. Feature Request: PNG Support (with transparencies)! Please!!! In fact, kill all the TGA (big raw uncompressed ew)/JPG support and go with PNG.

    As the feature request area is, for a lack of a better term, crap. 100+ pages of duplicates, where’s the filtering? Do you need volunteers?

  7. The select texture bug showed up with the last iteration of the First Look viewer. Until the next one is fixed, I’m staying with 58185 for building.

  8. Cory Edo says:

    Good news: the load time for new textures/snapshots is significantly decreased, down to between 3-12 seconds to fully rez. Nice!

    More good news: For some reason, my ongoing problem with texture latency (applying a texture to all sides of a prim results in one face that will not take the texture unless applied independently) seems to be FIXED with this version.

    Very bad news: as #4 stated, you cannot apply a texture to a single face of a prim without it being applied to all faces. Even with a single face selected, all faces will take the new texture. (Could this be related to the above situation?) Big big big MASSIVE problem for building (read: makes it nearly impossible)

    Additional bad/odd news: the HUD texture issue with alphas is still existent (I know you’re working on it Steve, and thanks), however with this version the textures that weren’t showing up are now different/additional ones. I can try to post photos later tonight.

    Frame rate still excellent.

    ***stats***
    WinXP Media Center Edition
    AMD 64 X2 Dual Core Processor 4200+
    2 Gig RAM
    nVidia 7900 GT/GTO

  9. Benson Willis says:

    Avatar keeps freezing in random places and psoes. I’ve got all controls but can’t move.
    Also, yes, I know there ‘s a trick to moving your cache, but can’t you guys make an option on installing as to where the user can put it…the trick doesn’t work for mine becuase the hard drives are running different formats.

  10. Darien Caldwell says:

    The bug where you can’t delete no-copy objects in world is still here, or back if it was previously fixed.

  11. Darien Caldwell says:

    oh crap, now my favorite hair looks inside out. Alpha sorting bug ?

  12. Lina Pussycat says:

    No idea darien my hair looks fine…

  13. Gillian Waldman says:

    The texture bug(s) should really be acknowledged in the blog entry. Someone tries to build with this viewer, and they’re going to be sorely disappointed.

  14. Usagi Musashi says:

    Thank you! Steve your always honest and UPFRONT. I repect that! Thank you for all your hard work!

    Usagi

  15. Darien Caldwell says:

    actually I think it’s a problem with flexi. My hair acts inside out after Teleporting, but if I take it off and put it back on then it’s fine. Never did this before.

  16. Frame rates are all over the place for me in this version. I can’t even walk or fly properly. Movement of ANY kind will drop my frame rate instantly to 1 fps or less. Alt focusing on a nearby point will drop my frame rate from 18 – 22 (in an enclosed space) to 7 or less. The texture console fills the screen with any camera movement, and it takes 5-10 seconds for it to completely clear (indeed, there are so many textures that although they appear to be removed in short order, the list never shrinks during that time). The discard bias is -0.05 at all times. As well, that top bar in the texture console will fill past the bottom bar (which is, now, quite long) but suddenly zip back down to about 1 cm in length on my screen, restarting the texture loading cycle.

    Actually it seems now that the cycle is unending. Where as I started this post with between 18-22 fps, now it hovers in the low 3’s because the texture console keeps filling and clearing, filling and clearing. The last client was so much better it’s not funny.

    On top of this, the previously mentioned bug with the texture application is present. Oddly though, if you select a single face, pick a texture for that face, then cancel, that face will remain the old texture but all the other faces of the prim will be the new texture you picked.

    Tearing is also present still after all these revisions. With the frame rates basically going slide show it becomes very apparent. One vector of a prim will be improperly assigned some amount to the negative Y axis direction for a frame. Always only along the Y axis, towards the South. It distorts the texture and manifests as a spike of that texture being stretched across the screen, or even as little as 3m.

    CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium 4 (2400 Mhz)
    Memory: 511 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
    Graphics Card: RADEON 9700 PRO x86/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.6287 WinXP Release
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.10_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 1179/279258 (0.4%)
    Viewer Digest: 926bcff5-4b67-049f-b4c0-7534b6106ffe

  17. Addendum:
    Also, none of my gestures make noise now. A real bummer when someone tells a joke and I do a rimshot.

  18. Nigel Paravane says:

    Upgrading to the latest NVidia graphics driver fixed my shimmering rainbow-colored Full Bright objects. Thanks for the suggestion (could have sworn I had done that …).

  19. Aodhan, you might try the -purge switch, per http://www.lslwiki.net/lslwiki/wakka.php?wakka=newview .

    I don’t know if this old switch still works or not.

  20. Case Young says:

    With still remaining one face texture applying and no copy object deletion bugs i’ll refuse downloading and installing this new version.
    Sorry for that but i use FL as my main viewer and building with working texturing is important for me. Hope for a quick fix on this two bugz.

    Keep the good work up Steve FL rox

    Greetz Case

  21. The latest offerings seem to have improved stability under Mac OS 10.4.8 on my Intel Core Duo iMac, and the problem with mis-aligned HUDs has not shown itself so far in the latest release.

    As a paying customer I appreciate your focusing your engineering resources on fixing the existing code base before adding new features. It is essential that a house have a solid foundation before adding an addition. So to with computer code.

    πŸ™‚

  22. Natasha Simonds says:

    OMG!!!! Its been two hours and still no crash!!!! WooHoo!! good job ..
    (I hope) πŸ˜‰

  23. Ike Herouin says:

    Texture caching still bogging down as before under load, whimsy, or at capacity (when it turns over?), uncached image rendering not quite as bad but still poorer than it had been three or four releases back. The most egregious bug, though, whereby one can’t properly assign textures to individual prim sides, is violently irksome.

    On the sunny side, however, it’s more stable in general and doesn’t seem to be battering the CPU so soundly as did the prior. I’m frankly still amazed it runs as well as it does given it’s doing what it’s doing. Slipping into Red Letter Brigade mode for a shameful aside, though, if I were you I’d sh*tcan the voice implementation plans. No good can possibly come of that.

  24. 2k Suisei says:

    Oh much better!

    The framerate spikes really have gone.

    Although I’m now noticing that objects are taking a lot longer to rez. I leave, then reenter a sim, and the immediate objects around me can take as long as 30 seconds to rez. Yet in the normal client the objects will rez instantly.

  25. Vincent Nacon says:

    ====NOTICE====
    Ok, I do have a problem with the particle change (removal), if youre going to disable those 4 old particle codes, you better give llParticleSystem an OFFSET flag… not an suggestion… it’s a demand.

    For the reason of my demand because those 4 old particle codes has offset flag to give, but llParticleSystem does not.

    PS: not talking about key target for the particle to follow, where it starts
    ====NOTICE====

  26. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    The Select Texture bug is a critical one, guys. it makes building nearly impossible.

    We NEED an emergency fix, guys. Please.

    Also, what happened to: “Fixed avatar standing up when clothes are dragged onto it.” That ws in the release notes for yesterday’s update, but it had NOT been fixed at all. What’#s going on there?

    WarKirby

  27. WarKirby Magojiro says:

    And I fully support Voice implementation!!

    We DO want it, regardless of what some naysayers would have you believe.

    WarKirby

  28. Gaius Goodliffe says:

    lol Vincent, those calls have been deprecated and slated for removal for a long, long time. It’s far too late to be making any “um, before you remove those” suggestions.

  29. Lina Pussycat says:

    Vincent fact is they were deprecated for awhile now… Voice Implementation would be good but voice is kind of worthless in most cases where one would need to actually be able to Listen. Case in point a meeting text is easier to keep up with then Voice is unless you record the voice and then you have to get back to sections if you want to look over something you forgot…. There are also the obvious things with how they would go about actually implementing this its not as easy as it sounds.

    For the person that mentioned PNG’s this would be possible but without having them locally stored on your machine TGA’s are a nicer format to use. If you look at a good deal of game mod things they prefer TGA’s as they load a bit faster. PNG’s would be nice to have but tga’s get recompressed into another format and are also a bit easier to handle in a good deal of cases by the game manufacturers end. However png’s are easier on the user somewhat but the question you need to ask the recompression they do is it supported by PNG or not!

  30. Tmyclyk Dmytryk says:

    Maybe it’s just me but it appears that in profiles ‘picks’ section, “Loading…” is stuck above the image. Anybody else have this?

  31. Signore Iredell says:

    @ 11 – Not sure we really need more bug acknowledgement in the blog entry. When we download the FL viewer we read (or we *should* read) that

    “This is a test viewer connecting to the live grid which means everything you do is for real. We want you to use this test viewer for your normal day-to-day activities, but please be aware that it might be buggier than normal”

    http://secondlife.com/community/firstlook.php

    …so we get warned, no?

  32. Usagi Musashi says:

    why did it install two icons on my desktop? I uninstalled and removeled all the Short Cuts and it placed two on my desktop? WHY?!

  33. Lina Pussycat says:

    thats usually a bug with windows in my experience usagi =/

  34. Jonathan Mulberry says:

    #28 yes we get warned that there may be bugs… but unless we report the bugs in the blog or via Bug reports in world. Steve and LL won’t know necessarily what the bugs are and so can’t fix them.

  35. barney says:

    You can’t be serious. You fix some bugs in _looks_ but not the really bad building bug with select textures? You _must_ be kidding, because that ‘s really insulting to builders. With broken building tools, most builders will fall back to the release client, which will take away a lot of testing that really would be needed for the first look client. Working building tools are not nice-to-have – they are essential. And the building tools are allready broken for half a year, no need to heap even more bugs on us builders.

  36. Seph Swain says:

    addition to the single-side-texture bug:

    If you click “Cancel”, all textures except the selected one remain changed.

    This can ruin your day.

  37. Gillian Waldman says:

    @15 – regarding sounds on gestures. They will come back. Sometimes when you clear cache/uninstall, the sounds need to cache again and they can take a couple loops to get back to normal. This is also true (I find) for normal trigger noises like doors, building triggers and the TP sound. They all seem to come back after a while.

  38. Usagi Musashi says:

    Thank you lina! πŸ™‚

    I understand know, so its common happens? first time i installed sl client and “TWO” shortcuts appears……..ANd Yes i did uninstall the old version before i did it.

  39. Gryff says:

    @33: “If you click β€œCancel”, all textures except the selected one remain changed.”

    Great shortcut! Previously, I had to set all the textures individually. Now I can just set all of the ones I don’t want to change with a single command!

    I’m excited by the possibilities – perhaps setting land attributes for all your neighbours and not your own land, or changing appearance affects everyone on the sim apart from you? I think the Linden’s are onto something here that could completely change the way we use computers…

    πŸ˜‰

  40. Web Page says:

    If one of these builds doesn’t get released in the near future, quality control is going to continue to spiral. Big unacceptable bugs are being ingnored in favor of tweaks.

    First look is becoming a separate program. The longer you wait before inserting it as the actual viewer, the more surprises you’re going to have. No there’s talk of adding voice, and who knows what other features before unleashing.

    I’m really beginning to wonder if the point of first look isn’t to dilute complaints and cause confusion by dividing the complaints into two constantly changing groups as the usability/purpose of FL changes.

  41. Lina Pussycat says:

    its not exactly common usagi =/ But it does happen sometimes and its happened to me with more the SL so i know its not an SL problem at least. Anyways it usually happened to me when i deleted a shortcut its like there is a bug in windows that sometimes doesnt properly delete them. Its a rare bug but it happens now and then….

  42. Lina Pussycat says:

    Web people were bringing up voice they werent actually talking about adding it. They need to iron out most of the major bugs and make it so its as compatible as possible with other people that may not be able to use VBO. The longer it spans with first look actually is better because its being tested on the main grid they know the impact its going to have on the majority of the people using it. Those that choose not to use it may have unexpected things happen but a range of hardware configurations are obviously being worked on.

    This is the entire point of first look though and yes it is a separate fork till it goes public and i’d rather have them hold it off if they feel its not ready then release it prematurely.

  43. Veriee says:

    Great confusion tactics LL!

  44. Nikkie Jua says:

    Same as #16. I did an update on my NVIDIA GeForce drivers and it fixed my rainbow flashes. Finally, I got the nerves to update the drivers. Never had done somthing like that before so was a bit anxious about it. Finally I can use VBO without those flashes… GREAT!!!
    Love First Look, works fine for me.

    FPS is much higher than on the Alpha viewer. Loads much faster.
    I do not have experiance with building things so, I can not comment on that part…

    Thanks LL for a great job, keep up the good work!!!!

    Second Life 1.13.3 (58603) Feb 28 2007 17:52:31

    CPU: AMD (1991 Mhz)
    Memory: 1024 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce FX 5200/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.3
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.10_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 15/132838 (0.0%)
    Viewer Digest: 926bcff5-4b67-049f-b4c0-7534b6106ffe

  45. Peekay Semyorka says:

    @Lina & KillerMonkey:

    There’s already a patch to support PNG uploads in the JIRA:

    https://jira.secondlife.com/browse/VWR-79

    Likely wont get accepted into the official viewer for awhile, though.

    In the meantime you can try the OmegaBeta custom viewer, which has PNG support:

    http://targetomega.com/sl/omegabeta.html

    However it’s based on the regular viewer instead of FirstLook. I’m really swamped currently but I’ll try to make a FirstLook version as well.

    By the way, if you peruse through the JIRA, you can vote for which patches / bugs you’d like to see fixes implemented.

    -peekay

  46. Domino Marama says:

    Workaround for setting a single face’s texture:

    The setting all textures bugs only occurs if you set the texture via the edit box. If you drag a texture from your inventory onto a face, just that face is textured.

  47. Michael Dale says:

    Still getting the rainbow flashing occasionally, running latest NVIDIA drivers for Vista.

    Second Life 1.13.3 (58603) Feb 28 2007 17:52:31

    You are at 256120.7, 264243.6, 124.6 in Isabella located at sim24.agni.lindenlab.com (66.150.244.26:13005)

    CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium 4 (2527 Mhz)
    Memory: 1022 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows Vista (Build 6000)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 6800/AGP/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.1
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.10_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 450/123560 (0.4%)
    Viewer Digest: 926bcff5-4b67-049f-b4c0-7534b6106ffe

  48. Usagi Musashi says:

    Lina that was the first time it created “TWO” Shortcuts…… Strange indeed when i saw this. And what Steve wrote just confused me more.

  49. Karin says:

    Keep having problems when putting on clothes. First it all looks fine, but then after few seconds they start rezzing again, then look fine again… Then again rezzing… keeps going on like that for about 4 minutes. Then clothes are finally there.

  50. Usagi Musashi says:

    Anyone else crashign with Quicktime? Gesh I using pro and its the lastest but I am crashing and freezing.

  51. Grow says:

    #24, please dont speak for others. Think the blog entry about voice says it all. YOU may want it, 100s don’t.

    Sorry to be off topic, but think that needed a reply

  52. Pink Dorn says:

    Ohh – One question would it be possible to reduce the minimum draw distance?? I have to use a very bad connection from time to time and it would really help to be able to go down to 32 or even fewer!
    Thanks!!!
    Your Pink

  53. Gillian Waldman says:

    @42 – yes, dragging a texture works. BUT, as I quickly learned…if you “miss your target” you can quickly retexture your enter floor with a new texture.

  54. Gillian Waldman says:

    should be “entire” floor O.o

  55. Kasolai Nighbor says:

    Still hoping First Look will support the Ageia PhysX cards at some point… πŸ™‚

  56. This one is really great here — frame rate is back up where it was about 3-4 First Look releases ago. (I also installed a new NVidia driver, though, so that might be a factor.) This is also the first one where the CPU utilization on my dual core system goes significantly OVER 50%; looks like there is finally some multithreading going on.

  57. Tenda Dae says:

    Hi, I know this is a bit off-topic but, resident log in does not seem to be working. I have tried several times and used the same details as my client log in of course. Anyone else have this problem or just me?

  58. Johanna Hyacinth says:

    In the Linux client, I’m hearing a lot of stuttering in the audio after logging in, and frequently after teleporting.

    I modified the secondlife file to force the client to use ALSA (by uncommenting the LL_BAD_ESD and LL_BAD_OSS exports), and found that it took forever to log in — and once I did log in, I was in an empty sim and unable to move; sim and user ping times were both maxed out. After some more experimentation, it seems I only have the trouble if LL_BAD_OSS is exported.

    CPU: Can’t get terse CPU information (Athlon64 3800+)
    Memory: 1013 MB
    OS Version: Linux 2.6.18-3-k7 #1 SMP Mon Dec 4 17:23:11 UTC 2006 i686
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 7600 GS/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.2 NVIDIA 87.76
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 0/1515 (0.0%)
    Viewer Digest: 800e9400-94f3-1a45-0167-1d7841ec53af

  59. Jily Bogart says:

    I am also having probs signing in…says i am in the process of logging out since last night…i think we need lindens to reset the sims so all these floaters can get officially logged out and we can all get back in…i am tired of paying for a game i cant use…hope someone out there is listening…..

  60. Donald says:

    Thank G_d this is optional.

  61. Dingdong Batz says:

    I am finding that sometimes, especially after I crash, that I get…YOU CANNOT USE SECONDLIFE ON THIS COMPUTER…PLEASE CONTACT SUPPORT IF THIS IS INCORRECT…!!

    Does anyone know why this is?? I unistall and reinstall SL to try and get it on…the only thing that seems to get it to work is if I go onto Beta (which usually has a few people with the same problem) for a bit…and then try after about 20 minutes!!

    I use SL all the time usually without probs….AMD Athlon 3000….2 gb memory…160 GB hd…ATI Radeon 9600 pro….Windows XP pk 2…

    Then everything seems to work ok??

    I am wondering if this is a bug…I have not seen anyone else mention it??

    Cheers Ding :s

  62. Dingdong Batz says:

    Ps..I clear cache and all that ….restart the internet balh blah…..

  63. Farallon Greyskin says:

    Interesting, that might explain a couple oddities and might make my last report of the continued slowdowns when turning false. I was reusing my desktop icon from a previous install which in the past always pointed to the new exe.

  64. Henri Beauchamp says:

    Citation:

    > Changes:
    > (Note: this change was introduced several versions ago be we forgot to put this in the release notes)
    > * The following 4 particle commands have been deprecated for some time, and no longer work:
    > …/…

    Let me guess…. You made these changes in SL v1.13.2(11) ?… That’s when you broke llParticleSystem(). Let me once again (it must be the 12th time or so, with all the reports I did online for FL and the beta grid) report that bug, and please, pretty please REVERT THAT BUGGY PATCH YOU DID !
    ——————
    llParticleSystem([]) STILL fails to stop particles emissions (FL v58603)

    Steps to reproduce the bug:
    – create a two prims object
    – download the demo scripts here: http://logs.changeip.org/SL_ParticlesBug.txt
    – put the main script in the root prim, and the slave script in the child prim.
    – rez the object
    – click once to emit particles
    – click a second time to try and stop them…

    Observed results:
    The particles do not stop after llParticleSystem([]) is called.

    Expected results:
    That the particles emission would stop, like it always did before SL v1.13.2(11). This is a severe REGRESSION which breaks a lot of toys (including chain particles in many popular toys). Please fix it !

  65. Since you’re deprecating those functions, you might want to check through the LIBRARY, specifically the “Waterfall” mist script. Last time I remember checking a few months ago, these scripts still used the deprecated llMakeSmoke and other “old” particle functions. You might want to remove them before release, as they’re some of the very few included scripts for newbies and might confuse the heck out of them.

    Regards,

    -Flip

  66. Elaine Bennett says:

    This may have been hashed and rehashed but I am new to these trials so patience and undertstanding is appreciated. I notice that I can no longer choose to log in at my home or the last place i was when I exited. I always end up logging back on the last place i was. There are times when I get uncomfortable and do not want to get into some long discussion with the people I am with so I get out of it by logging off – especially when TP’s are not working. I’d like the option of logging back on at my home and not having to go back to the place I left.

  67. Comet Bumbo says:

    Hallo,

    if I try to change the shirt in the Linux-Version of 58603, my Avatar is destroyed (the upper part of the body is then between the legs!). After some time, the avatar is again correct. That was’nt the case in 58537!

  68. Vincent Nacon says:

    Yes, of course those particle has been deprecated but doesn’t mean I couldn’t use them till now. The compiler was able to use them no matter what. But what they are saying is that their compiler will no longer let those old particle pass as codes anymore.

    I’ve been using them for special case effects when llParticleSystem could not do the job done.

  69. Walker Moore says:

    after running this viewer without problems all day, it just crashed and burned (froze for 20-30 seconds before text flew up the screen and it crashed) several times while i was at the alt-zoom studios sim. i suspect routing problems (i can’t log back in now) but connection issues never made my client crash before. i’ll do some testing later (including simulating a disconnection) before filing a bug report. if only i could get back on. =(

  70. Toad Mougin says:

    Been using the latest version of the First Look client, and have been in-world for a couple of hours, hopping between properties.

    Is it just me, or has the ‘missing water’ bug been fixed? (the one where you have to do world > region/estate)

  71. Kenny Devoix says:

    @66
    Go into your preferances, general tab then check the box ” show start location on login screen” or you can change right in preferances also just make sure you hit apply after the change.

  72. Dzonatas Sol says:

    I’m staying with version 58100, as it is the most stable and workable. The only major problem I notice with 58100 is the how HUD attachments move from their location when the client is restarted.

    CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium 4 (1800 Mhz)
    Memory: 767 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce4 MX 440 with AGP8X/AGP/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 1.5.5

  73. Allen Parks says:

    Steve ,
    I use the 4 particle commands you just cut in ADDITION to the particle system in the same script to make smoke and special effects in a LOT of my fireworks. You need to supply a work around or a bunch of my scripts are going to break. They have always worked fine until now. Please provide us a work around as over 50% of all scripts out there use these commands. Please reconsider hacking commands from LLSCRIPT befor you FULLY understand the ramifications to your actions. This is going to cause a LOT of Grief for a lot aof people !

  74. Jesper W. says:

    Honestly, I didn’t read through all entries – my init. feedback: – still staying with 57679, this one still hadn’t loaded even most textures, or my attachments, or anything much really, after three-four minutes. Being used to a pretty good view of my surroundings within 30secs of landing anywhere, this in not a good experience, read: not one I’ll subject myself to voluntarily.
    Sorry.

    I don’t really understand – the first few FL viewers brought noticable improvements across the board, excluding of course a certain amount of beta bugginess, but since the aforementioned version it’s been all downhill, at least on this, a MacBook Pro 2.0Ghz 2.0Mb RAM.

    Too bad – for me anyway, but guys, keep’em coming, I’ll try every single one, albeit maybe only once πŸ™‚

    Jj

  75. Atashi Yue says:

    Same problem with this one as the last, and as was mentioned in a comment above. Terrible freezing/fps rates when turning or moving the camera. This usually begins about 30 to 45 minutes after logging on. It’s totally unuseable at this point for me.

    One nice thing with FL, it doens’t bog my PC down as much as the regular viewer does. Unfortunately at this time I can’t use FL at all due to the freezing problem. I do hope this doesn’t get merged into the regular client.

  76. Asriazh Frye says:

    all firstlook clients after 58100 have a bad memory leak on my system, being (Memory: 999 MB
    OS Version: Linux 2.6.19-gentoo-r4 #1 SMP Sat Jan 6 03:12:26 UTC 2007 x86_64
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.0 NVIDIA 96.31)

    Everything seems to work fine exceppt for the mentioned bugs, until both my physical RAM and SWAP are used up and everything slows down to a crawl, which is about after 2-3 hours)
    Does anyone else experience that too?

    -Asriazh

  77. Trilobite Reisman says:

    I’m with Dzonatas… The last two firstlook viewers have been a fairly huge downgrade for me, after the version before was a giant leap up in framerate and overall smoothness.

    The latest FL crunches along hideously for me, and although its framerate guage sometimes isn’t reporting it, there are still massive hiccups in rendering when walking around.

    My usual 20-30fps walk round my own shop is sitting mostly around the 20fps mark, Β±3, but on occassion, it dips as low as 1fps! The only possible things to cause this are a few spinning prims, and under 100 onscreen particles.

    So I’m still with FL 58100, thanks….

    Black Macbook / MacOSX 10.4.8 / 2Ghz dual core / 1Gb ram

  78. Sascha says:

    i have a strange experience while building. I enter text in the description field, do some rotation with alt+mouseclick and so on and then…
    my keyboard layout changes from my actual german one back to an u.s. one. (I’m using the english user interface)

  79. Kooky Jetaime says:

    Steve – Another installer suggestion for you, considering you liked my last one (dump the cached orientation files).

    Have the installer perform the uninstall. That way, for us testers, its just a one step process. Additionally, the installers uninstall can save the relevant config files between installations (since normally the config files don’t change). In the event of a change that requires the configuration to need to be deleted due to a change that isn’t backwards compatible, warn the user that it must be done prior to them being deleted. (This way, the user can back up the settings files just in case they need to roll back to the previous versions, like a lot of us did with the “esc” bug, or provide an in-installer way of creating said backup.)

    This would provide us, the users, with a nice single-step install, as opposed to a two step uninstall/install and saving, moving, renaming config files. This provides LL a nice clean install for each install, to eliminate any upgrade issues.

  80. Shadow Engawa says:

    SL is NOT fixed. Please try again.

  81. Near Ruined says:

    Still having the ATI issue crashing on the login screen immediately – the funny thing is someone made a patch to make the game playable for anyone who has an ATI card but you guys keep saying it’s an ATI problem. nice job

  82. Ylikone Obscure says:

    Regarding the editing of single side texture… how do bugs get fixed and then re-introduced? I thought version control systems take care of such things during development?

  83. Zebadee says:

    I haven’t crashed all day, then evening comes, the grid hits 30,000 online and BAM 3 crashes and a grid crash in one hour, its almost comical. If it wasnt on a daily basis, it would be.

  84. Zebadee says:

    ^^ sim not grid haha, the typos on the blog is a disease spreading?

  85. Gillian Waldman says:

    @ 81, my husband posted some detail about his crash and how he fixed it installing a new .NET framework. You can find his post at this link. http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/02/23/first-look-render-pipeline-update-58390-now-available/#comment-157822

    Perhaps this will be of some use.

  86. Tmyclyk Dmytryk says:

    I am not so much crashing as just freezing, the entire Second Life application just freezes.. All previous versions i’ve not had this problem, back to main i go!

  87. DR Dahlgren says:

    Can some PLEASE tell me what is going on??? Objects I create keep vanishing. I am not making a group mistake and they are not being returned to me. I am on my own land. Things from inventory rez, but new creations dissappear after about 30 – 60 seconds.

    Then, when I go to ask Help Request if they no what is going on, I can not IM them. Nothing shows up in the IM panel, but I can IM other ppl.

    I have a fairly big project going, and I can’t build. This is killing me.

    Any ideas??

    DR

  88. Huns says:

    It seems to crash a lot and my avatar is still rebaking at random times.

    CPU: AMD (2211 Mhz)
    Memory: 2048 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 7800 GT/PCI/SSE2/3DNOW!
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.3

  89. Lee Ludd says:

    The client button called “Account History” indeed takes you to the web page called “Account History”, but that’s not a page anybody wants to see. The client button should say “Transaction History” and the web page with that name is what people want to see.

  90. mariah jubilee says:

    Dunno what you did, but since the update SL is crashing right and left for me. I lock up solid only seconds after I log in…and when I do manage to stay logged in…I feel like my avie’s virtual feet are stuck in mud. Tremendous lag.

    So what does this mean? It means that all these patches are like drugs to the human body. Sometimes the cure is worse than the ailment.

    Please stop adding new things before the old are fixed, ok? You’re creating a rabbit warren of issues that will soon become unmanagable..and spoil our experiences in SL.

  91. Winter Ventura says:

    Why is it, that when a NEW VERSION of FirstLook is released… people are still permitted to login using an out of date FL client?

    If you’re going to subject noobs to your open beta, and force these noobs on the retail public (with their complaints that X doesn’t work).. could you at least make sure that the beta software they’re all using is the most up to date version OF that beta software?

  92. Henri Beauchamp says:

    @ Winter

    Very bad idea !… Sometimes, you have no other choice but to use an old beta version, because it’s the only one which will not crash in your face at login like the newest beta does (like FL v58100 to 58390 with the locale problem, for example), or have so bad bugs that it spoils your SL experience (like the current “release” version, which is probably the most buggy one I ever saw)…

  93. Usagi Musashi says:

    91, thats because they can still testing existing client will result in a more answers to problems.

  94. Carson Alcott says:

    I see now that llMake Smoke is deprecated, and had been deprecated for some time. I apologize for all my bug reports about the Archer Fireplace smoke-emitter.
    Alas. Since there can be no smoke, I have removed the fireplace from my “small chalet” in the snowy mountains of Kendall… if there can be no smoke, there will be no fire, for me.

  95. Azrael B. says:

    Carson Alcott: instead of llMakeSmoke use llParticleSystem.

    Much more flexible.

  96. Travis Kaiser says:

    I think i found a bug someone else may want to try it also to see if its the same for them but everytime i try to add a friend that isnt in the same sim as me or online though the add button in the friends menu i crash and it doesnt add them.

    CPU: Intel Pentium D processor 930 (3.0GHz) w/2mb cache
    Memory: 1GB DDR2 SDRAM at 533MHz
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Service Pack 2
    Graphics Card: 512MB ATI RADEON X1900

  97. Vincent Nacon says:

    “Much more flexible.”

    No it’s not…. llParticleSystem DOES NOT have an offset.

    it’s not fair for a particle system that has been some what “downgraded” instead of just cramming them all into one.

    The “deprecated” particles has been useful for quite time.
    Now there’s TON of broken items due to this action.

    Not happy…. I’m a graphic artist and it’s no fun without “offset” for perfect “effect”.

  98. Donald says:

    I got an idea. Uninstall the darn thing! Problems solved. Keep whining over something you installed and doesn’t work doesn’t make sense. It’s an add on with more bugs piled upon the glitches we already have. Get all those little bugs together feeding off one another your bound to crash.

    We have a Zenview Duo 20SV with 2 keyboards running off one computer. Both our draws are set at 128, we hardly ever feel taxed. We only use this one computer for SL and email and use our smaller one for Internet browsing. Keeps those little unseen critters out of our SL computer that like to nibble on things that can slow up a computer.

    CPU: Not supported (3000 Mhz)
    Memory: 1022 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
    Graphics Card: RADEON X700 PRO x86/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.5885 WinXP Release
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.9_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 0/957 (0.0%)

    ……..we remain optimistic.

  99. Usagi Musashi says:

    I don`t understand why people have to insult other by calling them WHINING people (AGAIN MY BABY WHINES WE ARE ALL ADULTS OK! ) So save that kind of remarks for your other playgrounds! Uninstalling and reinstall DOESNT ALWAYS HELP!
    I think abouthe “ABOVE person tried to say is ”
    After a while patach after patch causes the client to have problems and you need to “uninstall” and then “reinstall” Now was that too hard to say with out the insults.

  100. Farallon Greyskin says:

    I am also still getting the freezing problem with this latest build. THe ONE common thing I’ve notoced with it is that it seeps to happen when a new av comes into view. Not always, but sometimes. But every time it’s done it tonight ist was while a new av TPed or walked into view.

    I also ran into the texture selection bug. Selecting a single face of a cube to texture and selecting a texture textures every face. Draging a texture onto a single face still works but… kind of an odd bug to creep in at the last minute :/

  101. Marcoh Larsen says:

    Hi, I’ve found a serious bug (no whining)

    When playing Slingo, not the correct numbers are displayed at the bottom line. When you accidently click on the right number on the card, the number at the bottom line appears.

    This is also the case for the High 5 playing machines found at “Brock Gaming”. (I haven’t tested any other High 5 machines anywhere on the grid)

    With the former FL-client I can play Slingo with no problems.

    Regards,
    Marcoh

  102. SpaceQ Isan says:

    Still crashes on vista immediately after starting up ..no even log on screen is displayed!
    This is with latest ATI VISAT 32bit drivers on ATIX1800.
    On opposite side users’s build of SecodLife viewer for VISTA is running “fine”(some features restricted or crashing).
    If this progress 2 weeks more… I am buying Nvidia 8800 πŸ™‚ as nvidia runs with secondlife fine on vista.

  103. Walker Moore says:

    @Henri: you always have a choice to use the official viewer. allowing old betas which cause significant purchasing problems (ie. allowing users to spend cash, but not delivering their goods) is a nightmare for vendors in-world.

    @Near: Regarding the patch to stop ATI cards crashing. it’s quite possible it changes register settings on the ATI card and makes no modifications to the Second Life software itself. the register settings could’ve changed with a recent ATI driver release, hence this new problem being ATI’s fault. correct me if i’m wrong. =)

  104. Forser Jessop says:

    @Walker: What register settings?

  105. Jeffery Burns says:

    1. Would like FirstLook to copy the users’s preferences into it’s own location before (or after) installing (or whatever), so that we don’t have to go through and customize them again.

    2. More seriously, the ALT and ^ALT zoom options just don’t seem to work anymore or, to the extent that they do, they don’t work nearly as well as in the main version. On the whole everything is much faster but when one hangs out in damage-enabled land one needs to be able to zoom in on even the most distant avatars. Hold a sharpened pencil right on your screen. The pencil lead is about 3/16ths of an inch long. I need to be able to zoom on an avatar which is “that” far away.

    More generally:

    3. Work on the search function in the help system, both knowledgebase on online. Any word in the glossary, for example, should come up on a search for that work. Best way? Create search apps as were used in W98SE2, WNT, and W2000. At present, pretty much all we have is a book to read, with no TOC and no index.

    4. Allow landowners to permit anyone to “Set Home To Here” instead of locking us all down into infohubs. Or, if the decision is not to do this, remove the permission item in the group properties that implies that a group owner can permit this to be done on group-owned land.

  106. Alexandra Rucker says:

    Second Life 1.13.3 (58537) Feb 27 2007 17:14:13

    CPU: AMD (1838 Mhz)
    Memory: 1024 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 7800 GS/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!

    * Random freezing, particularly after being online for longer periods of time – Still having memory leak issues?

    * Random rebakes – bug report sent

    * Crash with weird right-click menu – CRASH report sent, with follow up email.

    * Textures loading more uniformly….so far…but DOG SLOW in comparison to production client. Texture in inventory loads nearly instantly in production client, will take a least a minute in current First Look client

    I’m currently making avatar stuff, so I’m BACK TO PRODUCTION CLIENT while doing this – getting damn tired of *twitch* *freeze* *twitch* *freeze* *twitch* *freeze* arrrrgh…

  107. grumble Loudon says:

    The data.db2 file sees to be still clipped to around 200Mb

    > 4. “Set Home To Here”

    You can join a group, set your home position and then leave the group while still keeping that home position.

    I have two small parcels for this.

  108. Mabb Dilweg says:

    To DR Dahlgren and anyone else who is experiencing problems building with this client…. DON’T use it you silly people! Go back to the original client. This is a beta and as others have noticed, is getting more and more unstable…

    From teh moment I ran SL after installing this update, I have experienced the mysterious freezing & crashing bug never being able to stay online for more than 15 minutes, with the walking through mud issue as well. I am going to revert to the previous version of the FL client to see if that helps. I’ve already uninstalled and reinstalled the FL client and deleted all shortcuts TWICE.

    System: Dell Inspiron 9400 laptop
    CPU: Intel Core 2 T5600 @ 1.83GHz
    Memory: 2 Gb
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Professional Service Pack 2
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce Go 7900 GS 256Mb memory

  109. Gaybot Foxley says:

    This version is a little disappointing. I can testify for everyone else here that says the latest First Look viewer is not allowing people to select different textures for single parts of a prim. Does this version automatically clear the cache when you open it? It seems like every other time I log in, my avatar has gray textures, and then it turns back to normal shortly. I don’t know if it is the grid or what, but every morning I have trouble logging in, there is lag, my textures are slow, and my avatar keeps turning into that stupid, default, Ruth woman. The FL viewer occasionally crashes after a teleport. I think it may be time to release a new version. I’ve been hoarding old versions of First Look, and I am considering rolling back a version or two. Is the update for the regular viewer coming soon? Keep the updates coming please. πŸ˜€

    P.S. Can I pretty please with Lindens on top have a volume slider bar for the typing sound? Ooh or better yet, how about making it a customizable sound. πŸ˜€

  110. Inara Pey says:

    This client looks good but is not.

    – Problems when building – yes.

    – Twitch – freeze – yes.

    More importantly, DON’T use this junk for buying goods using the “Fast Pay” method of payment.

    You won’t get your goods!!

    It has happened to me 3 times with three different vendors so far in the 1 day I’ve had the client. 1st time, Vendor was there and thought it was a glitch at his end. 2nd time, thought it was the vendor site as traffic was heavy – but still not received goods or refund from vendor; 3rd time – pretty obvious the fault is with the client.

    I’m going back to the Prod version

  111. Sand Mills says:

    The CRC of this installer fails? (Windows version)

  112. Sascha says:

    Hmm, most strangely I could put multiple different textures on a single prim with the new version. But if I use the alt-key to rotate the view, all huds go red and some invisiprims, not all.

  113. Ralph Doctorow says:

    I think there’s something wrong with FL and land convenants. If you go to one of the Dreamland Plush River sims and look at the covenant in FL it is not the correct one or it sometimes shows no covenant. Going to the same sim with the normal viewer shows the correct covenant.

  114. Raven Axon says:

    Still having texture priority issues. Avatars standing/dancing right next to me are constantly fuzzing out unless I keep my mouse over them yet prims all around the room are looking nice and sharp. I realize there are texture size limitations with only having 64mb of video ram, but i would much rather be able to see the people I am dancing with clearly and have prims in the distance fuzz out.

    PLEASE increase texture priority of avatars that are close to yours.

    CPU: 0.13 micron Intel Pentium III mobile (2000 Mhz)
    Memory: 2047 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
    Graphics Card: MOBILITY RADEON 9700 x86/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 2.0.5696 WinXP Release

  115. Gillian Waldman says:

    I agree with Ralph – sometimes, going to “about Land” brings up the wrong parcel information. Moving slightly and then clicking again, fixes it for me.

  116. Gillian Waldman says:

    I thought I would add – I am no longer having avatar issues in terms of rebaking or fuzzy textures. Things are working much, much better in that regard.

    Specs:
    Windows XP Media Center
    NVidia 7900 GS
    2 GB RAM
    Intel Core Duo

  117. Jaxx Tardis says:

    I just wish they would have mapped llMakeSmoke/etc to the particle system silently, I’ve got an awful lot of broken freebies.

  118. Lilliput Boshops says:

    Jerky movement when walking.

    CPU: Not supported (2992 Mhz)
    Memory: 2046 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: ATI Technologies Inc.
    Graphics Card: RADEON 9200 Series DDR x86/SSE2
    OpenGL Version: 1.3.1072 WinXP Release

  119. Lee Ponzu says:

    The last two First Look releases don’t work well for me. The FPS is down below 1 most of time.

    I just happened to notice that the PING times are up around 6 – 10 seconds. Not milliseconds, real seconds. This of course would explain why everything else is so slow.

    The older First Look (58185) still works great.

    Core 2 Duo
    7600 Go

  120. Sascha says:

    Why I can’t paste items into an empty folder that I newly created?

  121. I would really like to know when Second Life utilizes multi-threading.
    Here’s a performance comparison:

    Machine A:
    Core 2 Duo E6300
    2Gb DDR-400
    GeForce 6600 GT AGP
    FPS: 15-35
    Affinity set to 1 core: FPS 11-30
    First Look approx same settings: 14-19FPS
    VBO Enabled + Higher details: 16-40FPS

    Machine B:
    Sempron 2700+ Socket A
    512Mb DDR-400
    ATI Radeon 9600 Pro
    FPS at same place with same settings: 20-45 πŸ˜€

    every time i change a little bit the direction where i look/move, fps drops by 10-20% also, nice work πŸ˜€
    Comparisons on Mainstream viewer, BUT on machine a running at significantly smaller window.
    Difference? I can run MANY clients on machine A simultaneously tho.

    Now, can some one tell me how to collect exact stats etc. of FPS?
    Also to verify 100% same settings.
    With that Radeon on Machine A, vbo made it actually worse.

  122. JayR Cela says:

    CPU: AMD (1121 Mhz)
    Memory: 768 MB
    OS Version: Microsoft Windows XP Service Pack 2 (Build 2600)
    Graphics Card Vendor: NVIDIA Corporation
    Graphics Card: GeForce 6200/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!
    OpenGL Version: 2.1.0
    LLMozLib Version: 1.1.0 (Mozilla GRE:1.8.0.10_0000000000)
    Packets Lost: 16407/584125 (2.8%)
    Viewer Digest: 926bcff5-4b67-049f-b4c0-7534b6106ffe

    I am seeing improvements with just about every FL update, this latest one seem to work pretty good, textures load at acceptable speed. I see the addition of a background process running that appears to have something to do with load balancing while crossing sims. Inventory will still not hold its place when closed and reopened.
    VBO enabled is again causing some weird artifacts some times, was not with the previous FL client 58537 or at least I did not notice any problems, will test further with some building later today. I am very pleased to see that LL has decided to keep a solid working client intact while we are allowed to help iron out bugs with the FL one.

    side note to people unaware of adding your hardware~O.S. specs when posting to this blog. Open the help menu while in world, select, About Second Life – highlight & copy the specs with your mouse, return to the blog message posting area and paste them into your reply. Without this information the folks at LL have no way of knowing some valuable information. :_)

    oh and still having problems with attachments when I TP not being where they are supposed to be.

  123. Jeffery Burns says:

    grumble Loudon, I’ve never been able to set my home to anywhere other than a mainland infohub.

  124. Nicola Samiam says:

    WOOT!
    We’re back to square one here too!
    Load times are no almost exactly back to the same level as with the regular client: I.E: From being faster in previous FL versions, they’re now slower!

Comments are closed.