Change to Transaction Reporting

Several of you have noted, correctly, that the transaction history has been removed from the viewer in the latest First Look preview.  It’s true that, with the next viewer release, we will remove in-world transaction reporting in favor of web-based reporting.  Unfortunately, the massive growth of Second Life has made the in-world reporting unsustainable.

Right now, the web-based transaction history is generally far behind real-time, but during Wednesday’s operations maintenance we’ll be upgrading the hardware of the databases involved, which should allow it to keep up.  Subsequently, we will migrate all monetary transactions to dedicated, distributed databases, further reducing the risk of delayed reporting.

Our long-term goal is to make sure that you can get considerably better performance and convenience to manage your business and account history than is available today.

About Robin Linden

Be the Change. You must be the change you wish to see in the world. ---Mahatma Gandhi
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113 Responses to Change to Transaction Reporting

  1. Francesca Poppy says:

    I’m fine with it being purely web-based as long as it’s up to the minute. But even a five or ten minute delay will cause problems when a transaction needs to be verified…for example, when someone claims to have paid for custom work. At this point the website is so far behind that there’s no point in even checking it, instead I’m relying completely on the in-world account history. Please don’t remove this option unless you’re absolutely confident you can deliver without any delays.

  2. Mal says:

    yay!!! I’ve never really used the inworld transaction history and have been really iritated by slow updating on the website!! Great idea, Lindens!

  3. Shannon Marellan says:

    Whatever works. Yesterday, during database overload, I bought 3 pairs of shoes at Blaze*, and only 2 were delivered. But 3 were charged. The owner had no way to tell whether or not I paid or not and couldn’t TP in for 40 minutes. This kind of stuff needs to be resolved, inworld our out it doesn’t matter. Auditability, scalability, security. However it happens, as long as it does.

  4. Lynn Silverstar says:

    I tend to prefer the web based reporting over in-world reporting. For one thing, in-world means another interface widget that most people won’t use. Another is, at least on the website, I can download it if I want to.

    As for the problems, just do what it takes to enable the systems to scale. Having a sim lag out with less than twenty avatars in it isn’t a good sign.

  5. Persephone Milk says:

    Please fix the web-based reporting, and make it stable for at least a month, before you remove this from the client. Over the last two or three months, the in-world account history has been the only way to get timely and accurate transaction reporting. Please do not remove this until you have proven that you can make the web reporting work.

  6. Spaceman Opus says:

    “which should allow it to keep up.”

    Key word being “should”. As in…I “should” be able to log on with no problem when there’s under 25,000 people online, and not take more than 20 minutes like this afternoon (and it’s still taking people that long, even as I type this, from what I hear inworld).

    As in….I “should” be able to reset my view using the Esc button, even in FL.

    As in…I “should” be able to buy something, and not lose it to a bug that’s supposedly been fixed in this release.

    As in… I “should” be able to TP places in Second Life.

    As in…I “should” be able to TP somewhere and not worry about how many of my attachments show up sticking out of my butt.

    As in…well, I think you get the picture.

    Well, I hope this works…You guys say it “should”, so what am I worried about?

  7. Bucky Barkley says:

    Seems like the mantra has been “grow as fast as possible, no matter what gets broken in the process”.

    I would rather sell to 10 happy customers that can stay on all day and accomplish a lot (and who will come back), than sell to 20 grumpy people, 12 of whom will give up in the next month.

  8. coldFuSion Cheeky says:

    Putting the card before the horse. 😦

    Hardware should have been upgraded and migration of all monetary transactions to dedicated, distributed databases should have been done and tested extensively in upcoming releases BEFORE removing the transaction history from the client.

    What is your contingency plan if your efforts fail to keep the web based transaction history up to date? I mean the current date…not the day before which is how far the transaction history currently lags behind on a consistent basis.

    I know you have good intentions.
    You “SHOULD” be successful.
    Here’s hoping.

  9. TBA Lardner says:

    so, how can you expect us to have faith in this change when you yourself posting this don’t have faith that it will work as expected? you say it should allow as if there is big time reason to believe it wont happen. and when this does fail as your post seems to believe will happen, whats the backup/ will transaction history in the viewer be re-enabled until you *DO* get the problem sorted out properly?

  10. Aphrodite Tagore says:

    I agree that keeping redundancy in operation is key, in light of the overall technical challenges. So both in-world and web-based reporting need to be kept up, together, until each system operates well, and is RLT.

    There are far bigger fish to fry, as you all well know, and tiny reductions in the mu-peta flops this system will eventually require are meaningless. The ket is to deliver quality performance within the framework of parameters previoulsly defined. That is scalability.

    The United States keeps now returning dead astronauts to earth, and that is born of the same thinking that you are exhibiting in reduction of useable features. The STS originally was designed to provide boost phase and glide phase escape systems for the crew compartment, which fell to congressional budget cutting int the late 60’s. The heat shield and parachutes for ballistic re-entry of the crew compartment was drawn out of the system, as well as the seperation mechanism, and so was the pre-STS style escape rocket motor to pull the personnel clear of the stack during a boost-phase explosion. You are thinking the same way as the non-scientist congess did.

    I don’t think you will make any dead astronauts this way, but a few of your venture capitalists may choose to make the supreme sacrifice.

    All that malarky aside, you need to realize that you have not yet had “Massive increase”…you have experienced around 5x growth over the past 8 month period. (Not even an order of magnitude.)

    My advice still stands…have the publicist take on a trip to The Big Island to photograph the important tropical texures needed for the Library newcomers need (that will keep the publicist occupied, and away from the press.) A tight lid should be slapped over any public interest, as expressed by the fourth estate, and you need to scale this thing so in-world experince is really worth something. Fewer regions per machine would be a really great start…. The lag has me constantlythinking of seling out, but I love the project, and the people.

  11. Kithryn says:

    If those who love you say this… what say those who are just meeting you, who don’t CARE but expect things to work? Get your act together, LL… please.

  12. DigiKatt Shaw says:

    I for one use this feature constantly. I really will miss it. I rarely use the web based one. Mostly because its inconvenient, its not immediate. Can someone do a HUD that does the same thing? I have my buy one get one free sales as an ongoing event in my stores. and I code the boxes in the shop for this. The viewer based transaction history is how I keep track of things purchased for the day so that I can give out the free items due to those who purchased something on sale. How can I do that when the web based one is never updated in a timely fashion? I wish you’d do what someone else suggested and not take this away until you are *sure* that the web based one will work properly. This is going to cause delays in getting items to the customers in a timely fashion.
    digi 😦

  13. Spiritfire Musketeer says:

    I for one use the inworld transaction history to get an easy way to see what my net profit/loss for the day is. The daily summary was very useful to me. The web based one doesn’t summarize anything, just gives raw data and expects US to collate it now.

    Thanks for taking away something useful.

  14. Lina Pussycat says:

    There are also vendors out there that report sales JEVN is an example…. And you can set the time interval it sounds out the email of it. DigiKatt its only in the first look client and they arnt releasing a new update yet so hopefully its sorted out by then….. I never really used the transaction page period unless i needed to know if someone gave me money for sure but i usually dont mind it and my vendors are Jevn when i have them setup and thusly can report them to email at a set interval. If it gets rid of database load the inconvenience may be negated. You could also perform the sort of hack to change the F1 help key to point to the SL site instead which when its working properly might be very convenient 🙂

  15. Lina Pussycat says:

    There are some obvious inconveniences but are they really that bad? I mean its useful but when it needs to account for all the accounts (note it counts for every avatar even if they have no money) its going to become more inconvenient to keep it around. And who doesnt have a calculator or know how to add? lol

  16. Anti Antonelli says:

    Insanity. Why don’t we next force customers to view some web page in order to buy our goods too, instead of doing it in world? After all, it’s not like this whole place is based on the idea of a virtual economy, with transactions taking place every second.

    If you really, honestly, think this is a good idea then PLEASE have the sense to do what Persephone so wisely suggested: make sure the darn thing works, and works well, for an extended period of time, before yanking the only alternative out from under our feet. Burn any bridges lately?

  17. Nymph Goodliffe says:

    ::grabs a match and the gasoline finds a bridge pours the gas, strikes the match and watches the bridge burn:: Truely would say keep the web based until the new one is actually sure that it works not half heartedly uncertain that it may actually fail without a back up. Everyone from Landholders (Ashne Chung) to the little five and dime merchants won’t beable to see who did what and where if this new system actually “FAILS” to live up to LL’s expectations. Can LL define “Failure” or are they just going at it blindly until it works? ::watches as the bridge colapses:: It may be possible that there might be so many transactions going on that the current server for transactions can’t keep up because of the load on it. Thus if the load is transfered else where it might cause something else to crash. Hmm. We will see about that. But for now leave the web based transactions up no matter how far behind they are. Until you are actually sure that the new system works. NO half hearted we hope it works lines…. It’s kinda like “Famous last words.”

  18. Eata Kitty says:

    If you don’t have a two dozen plus customers a day you probably won’t appreciate how annoying this change is. Frequently you have to refer to transaction history for people saying they didn’t recieve items or whatever (Especially at the moment!). Having to refer to an outside website which has never been up to date and is very clunky is no help.

    If the transaction history page was bought up to near realtime, had better presentation and summaries of information it would be useful. Right now it is just a raw logfile.

  19. Alex Warrior says:

    G’day Robin

    This directly effects business of all kinds.

    And frankly the web based transactions have NOT been okay in the past month. And I don’t want to be told by LL employees that the “web based transactions are lagging by a couple of hours” when they are really lagging by 24-48 hours.

    (Honestly, don’t any of your staff have businesses in world? I thought it was a prerequisit to be across the SL lifestyle?)

    And by the way – hasn’t Zee told you that transaction history is EXTREMELY important in real life business? (Good luck with telling the major corporations that they can’t check their transactions for up to 48 hours… – that directly effects their reputation in the REAL world in terms of customer service and product delivery.)

    Just letting you know that the web based system is insufficient. In case you didn’t realise!

    Cheers
    Alex

  20. Jonathan Mulberry says:

    Call me thick, but can someone explain how having a website page search a the Transactions History database when it is opened, will ease database load in comparison to have the Client search the Transactions History database when you click on the Accounts button.

    Surely they’re both just calling the same data when you request it so how does changing from one to the other decrease database load?

  21. Stephen Zenith says:

    Will we ever be able to see a transaction history for our groups? That woukld be immensely useful for me.

  22. Lilly says:

    Gecko is embedded in SL, right ? Put its output on a simple window, we’ll then be able to look at the transaction history without leaving SL. It crashes for me when switching to desktop 🙂

  23. Nargus Asturias says:

    Not only keep it up-to-date, but i need better navigation for the page too!! For one, I need at least summation of all transactions like there were in the in-world transaction window. Also, I NEED “Today”, “Yesterday”, and “Back” and “Next” buttons on the page! What is so hard about that? All of it seem to be just PHP and HTML to me and nothing about database.

  24. william Fish says:

    4 Persephone Milk

    lately the in world account history has been lagged as well. there’s no way for us to know whether or not someone bought something till nearly 10 hours later… by that time most if forgoten.

    I’m very very pleased to hear that LL is taking steps to get the webpage transaction log uptodate as that’s what i use more often. Thank you LL for hearing our pleas.. With all the transactions that go on in world, a dedicated database server for tansactions only shoudl of been done along time ago.. but atlas here it comes. THank you.

  25. mercurion curtiss says:

    oh boy another hardware upgrade?!? == more serious downtime coming up!

  26. Stephen Zenith says:

    I agree with William, the web based transaction history is far more useful to me too. If you need totals, just pull it into OpenOffice (or a proprietary spreadsheet of your choosing), you can generate all the totals you like, as well as all the other benefits of using the right tool for the job.

  27. Abyssin says:

    Well all I can say to this is, it really shows what LL thinks of business in SL.
    Remove the *only* way to get correct transaction information, what next, remove the ability to buy things?

    The web page is good for keeping a history of what has happened, and as such it being a minimum of 12 hours behind (at the best of times), has just been very annoying.
    The webpage is simply not up to the task of replacing the in-world account history (even if somehow it ever catches up), after all, you are in-world dealing with a customer, now you have to leave SL and go to a web browser (esp. bad if you run full screen), find the page, find the information (pray that it is up to date), before you can reply to a customer’s problem…

    Oh well, so much for all the talk about doing more things “in-world”.

  28. nicky ree says:

    I use both the in world and the web based transaction history records.

    The inworld provides me with a fast and efficient way of checking my sales records : esp when I get clients who IM me inworld about any problems or issues they might have with purchases etc… I don’t need to quit my SL client and get to my web based browser to check or sort things… Plus as some have already stated… it takes a very loooooong time to get to my web base transaction record.

  29. Stephen Zenith says:

    For all the people complaining about the fact that the web based history is behind the inworld one, they already said they’re going to resolve that.

    The fact of the matter is that SL isn’t an ideal place for viewing 2d data. Get it out of the client and on the web where it belongs.

  30. Usagi Musashi says:

    thanks josh looking for to it 🙂 see you all there 🙂

  31. Vylixan Fallon says:

    I use it all the time. With all the stale money transfer issues , i NEED a stable realtime overview f transactions. So please create a stable overview in realtime. I loose money now and I can’t see where i went. Also to compensate customers. They don’t accept the “If you loose money blame the Lindens anymore” instead of blaming the unstable grid they starting to blame us resellers more and more. And i can’t proof anymore if someone did pay or is doing some fraud

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  33. Kalyrra Heart says:

    It would be useful if the website listed more than 500 account entries 🙂

  34. william Fish says:

    25 Abyssin

    I’ll agree with you that it does take a few moments to load a web browser and go to the page.. for me i have the transaction page for my account bookmarked. (saves a few mins) but yes SL running does make for a slow browser.

    NONE THE LESS the whole point of this blog was to inform us that they are taking the correct and RIGHT means to get the transaction webpage back up to date and to keep it that way. This is good.. not bad.. so give LL thanks and back them up on this. Lets hope nothing goes astray when they launch from the new data server. Cheers!

    28 Vylixan Fallon
    this is true.. i have people telling me that my xploders and slots are broken… that in world notice came about soon after i told the masses it’s not the xploder or slots.. its the servers… they soon understood. Soon all this will be behind us.. dig in it’s almost over.

  35. william Fish says:

    29 Kalyrra Heart

    just download it open it up with excel or something… much easier to read and find items or people or money or anything you want that way. I keep a folder for all my daily transactions… plus LL neatly labled the download with the day and year.. how nice!

  36. Vanessa says:

    I see several problems with this:

    *) in-world transaction history is querying a live up-to-date database which is why it causes load on the entire grid, where the web transaction history is querying a different database which is *by nature* out-of-sync with real time.

    This isn’t a rant but LL has yet to show that it can guarantee that any one single thing works reliably around the clock. Replacing the in-world transaction history with something that “may or may not be accurate or up-to-date” is really not acceptable.

    *) land buying bots are hammering the land sales database contiously. How does this affect load for one, and two why should that get preference over an absolutely vital and necessary feature?

    *) switching away from SL to another program causes frequent (or guaranteed) crashes for some people which means that the only way to see the data is to log off, go to the site, verify, log back on

    There are literally dozens of things you can do to lighten the grid load, please stop this mentality of cutting features and then boasting about how much you’re making SL scale.

    If you absolutely SL-will-die-if-we-don’t have to stop the transaction history from querying a live database, then keep the dialog and have it query whatever other database the site uses for the web-based transaction history.

  37. Raindrop says:

    The more you go, the more you remove features 😦

    I use the in-world transaction history all the time, as it is much easier and faster than switching back to the webpage (fingers crossed it doesn’t crash). It gives me a clear picture of what I’ve sold recently, whereas I first have to process the webpage-based data in Excel to get the same results. Which I do, twice a month or so. Definitely not everyday.

    Also I’d like to see *proof* that you can actually keep the web-based transaction history up to date. Yesterday’s transactions still haven’t loaded up for me.

  38. Hypatia Callisto says:

    I’m with the others who say, don’t get rid of the inworld reporting until the web reporting is fixed. No “should”… IS, and IS fixed for a while. 🙂

  39. Andrea Sage says:

    The in world history is like being able to go into the cash register, and see what you have made so far for that day, at a moments notice. If someone thinks they have been shortchanged, that is the best and fastest way to do it. If we now have to “wait” for the web based to update to confirm a transaction, it is making it all the harder to run a successful business in world.

    An example of this would be if you go to a store IRL, and you think you got shortchanged. When this happens, they almost always count the register immediately to make sure you either did or didnt. They dont tell you that you have to wait until all the sales are in for the day, and to come back tomorrow.

    You are giving store owners no way to defend themselves from people who claim their transaction didnt go through… which DOES happen.

    Now… with that said, for me, the web based reports are how I manage my business daily. I keep a running spreadsheet of all sales which I take directly from the report I can DL from the website. It is annoying to have it lag 24 hours (or more) behind… but there has to be a way to fix that, without taking yet another feature away from those of us who depend on it.

    Overall, I think things have been getting better… and I am sure there are things that can be trimmed out to make thing keep getting better. But in my opinion… taking out in world transaction history isnt one of them.

  40. Andrea Sage says:

    Oh… not that what I said will amount to anything anyway. No one listens to what we have to say anyway.

  41. Micah Giha says:

    So much of the infrastructure behind SL appears to be over-stressed, struggling and breaking with only 30K online that major changes must be made or the whole of SL will fail. With over 4 million avatars signed-up, the systems cracks are showing with LESS than ONE PERCENT of avatars logged-in.

    What efforts are being made by LL to handle loads of 2%, 5% or even 10% avatar log-ins? Can anyone at LL even comprehend what needs to change to allow 400,000 concurrent users?

  42. Could you at least make it so we can use the embedded browser to view a simplified version of the history without the website cruft? Wouldn’t that be a nice happy medium? You folks do understand middle ground, right?

  43. Morgana FIllion says:

    Oh no. I lean heavily on the in-world account history. Please don’t take it away in favor of having to reference an offworld site that is not, in current reality, kept up to date enough to be anything other than a historical reference, not a useable tool!

    You hope you will keep up? And that longterm it will work better than what we have now? That’s wonderful – great goal, and do work on that. But we live in the short term now. Please don’t take away our ability to keep account of our financial transactions!

  44. Stephen Zenith says:

    Sigh.

    Almost every comment has been “you can’t take the inworld one away, the web one lags too much”.

    Amazing how many people managed to read the “we’re removing the inworld transaction history” and yet totally ignored the “we’re going to fix the delays in the web-based history”

  45. Raudf Fox says:

    Wait… the in world was keeping up just fine.. and the web-based wasn’t, so you’re scraping the one that IS working ‘as intended’? *scratches her head* If you are going to get rid of the non-scalable, then why not scrap the web-based? Less work all around.

    I can understand why, but this is absolutely silly. I’ve had to swap from the FL to main viewer just to be able to confirm that a person has indeed paid into X vendor. It’s a waste of my time, period. As I said, IF the web based was staying up-to-date, that would be a fine solution. It used to. It can’t now, and past changes have decreased my belief that it can be brought up to ‘real time’ anymore.

    The answer I see to this is to keep the in-world until you have the web-based caught up and staying caught up. Don’t just yank the thing while the other is broken. ‘For the want of a screw, the nail was lost…’ Because you never know, but you might have to bring the old ways back…

  46. Astry Mirabeau says:

    Adding my two cents of agreement to the others, please please leave the in-world transaction reporting until you can get a solid running version of this web-based. We have the right to view our sales in real time.

    Please, please get this working correctly before implimenting it into the main client.

  47. I never knew there WAS a place in-world to view transaction history! I have always used the website to view it. LOL

  48. Lee Ludd says:

    If the external report doesn’t lag behind events by more than a minute or so, I will be quite happy to use it. An even cooler innovation would allow users to specify any web address, and have SL send the same info that appears on each line of the xls file in a header addressed to the website. Then talented programmers could write mysql/php pos applications to sell to SL business people. I would immediately pay at least $100 (US$, not L$) for such a system if it worked well and met my needs.

    In the short run, please fix the “failure to deliver inventory problem” and the “failure to trigger the money() event problem” asap. Given that vendors are basically borked because these services don’t work is the primary reason business people need to be able to consult the transaction history. Failure to fix these problems coupled with the loss of in world account history and the continutation of an an out-of-date off world transaction will only make running a business in SL more of a hassle than it already is. Hassle -> no fun -> quit playing SL.

  49. topo says:

    no puedo concetarme

  50. Grow says:

    “which should allow it to keep up.” lol xD

  51. Pingback: I work with sheep and pixels » Blog Archive » Snow Day

  52. Inigo Chamerberlin says:

    How about ‘We’ve fixed the web page (really fixed, not the usual LL ‘fixed’) and NOW we are going to remove the client transaction record?

    Or would that be too much like joined up logical thought?

    But no, you are proposing to commit the usual LL cock-up. Remove something BEFORE putting a replacement/solution/etc in place.

    Here’s a better idea:

    Why not just turn off everything except IM?

    So we just log in, and IM each other – still pay for our land/estates of course – but THAT way your brilliant ‘infinitely scalable’ (Remember the CEO coming out with THAT one?) system MAY be able to keep up… Though on the evidence, it won’t.

    Disgusted? Me? Now whatever made you think that?

  53. Stephe Erhler says:

    If you can’t see how having to try to keep TWO systems working is harder than ONE….

    I think this is fine and if it makes one of these two work correctly, I’d rather have one working right than two that are both broken. I use the web based one to see how things are going in world when i can’t log on to SL and I’m willing to bet others do too. Plus can download whole history as a file. If your in-world, you should see recent sales in your chat history anyway?

    And really, is opening a browser window to looki at this some big hassle? Good grief, people have gotten so lazy moving their mouse to the menu bar is now “work”?

    Stephe Ehrler

  54. Marianne McCann says:

    Hmn.

    I wish I felt dat I could trust dat the “should” of fixin’ the web database, but with alll the other troubles lately, like the near-daily grid troubles an stuff, I find it hard to accept dat it’ll work at least as good as the current in-world system by about dis time next week.

    It feels a little like the boy who cried wolf. It’s hard to offer the benefit of a doubt anymores.

  55. Ace Albion says:

    Stephen, I don’t think anyone is ignoring the expressed hopes that LL will fix the tardiness of the web transactions history, just that nobody believes it will happen.

    After the update web transactions will be back up to date just because of downtime allowing catchup and then it’ll gradually get worse again, or so we expect. Throwing more gubbins at the problem probably isn’t going to deal with another 5000 concurrent users all buying every 0/1L box on the grid.

    So great if they manage it, but people aren’t belieiving it. We’re fairly resigned to having delayed web transactions and no inworld check at all. Then we’ll get something saying that we can use scripted vendors with email options instead.

  56. Slartibartfast Majicthise says:

    And once again, progress marches backwards. Welcome to Web2.0, leave your 3-D at the door.

  57. Digi Tal says:

    I think most would agree with the suggestions to use the integrated browser for in-world viewing of the outside web-based interface – provided the information is current.

  58. TBA Lardner says:

    Stephe Ehrler, your missing the point, the transaction history in game is up to date when you goto it, something sold 1 second ago shows up, when you goto the web page you have to wait anywhere from 3 hours to 48 hours to see that same thing, making customer service for your business near impossable if you can’t see things till 2 days later. that is the problem were complaining about not the fact its going bye bye just the fact its the only tool that is allowing us to see things up to the minute

  59. Alexander Regent says:

    So this platform which is touted as Web 3.0 really can’t handle everything and so now we must launch yet another program to get needed info from a web 1.0 program? BRILLIANT!

    And yes, I too am VERY doubtful web pages will remain up to date as load increases even more.

    (the sound of me NOT holding my breath)

  60. Lazarus Longstaff says:

    Oh great, maybe this will reduce transaction loading on the database clusters enough for me to do things like build, telport, use vehicles, buy and sell, terraform, chat, IM….anything but sit perfectly still.

    Now WHY was it I keep coming back????

  61. jefferey Heart says:

    The webside transactions are SOOO Far behind frequently it ‘s hard to keep track of what the sales were. I’m VERY VERY disappointed to hear this news.

    Alot of MAYBE’s here… How about let’s do something that DEFINITELY will fix issues.

    A UPTO DATE method of Transactions is a MUST and if your NOT going to do it in the GAME. Something that is 15-30 MINUTES OLD is NOT useful at all to business owners.

    Just like YESTERDAY, I had over 5 items sold that and my LINDEN balance NEVER changed at all. Yet I could clearly see it in my transaction history and couldn’t see them at all on the website. I’m just now getting a chance to check and see if I EVER got PAID for that stuff.

    Give us REAL time solutions, not something that is SO far behind that it can’t keep up.

  62. Results Tiki says:

    +1 Lee Ludd’s comments re: “failure to deliver inventory problem” and the “failure to trigger the money() event problem”.

    Robin, are you even reading these comments at all?

    When is “Subsequently”?

    Long term goals are fine – but what about the present?

    I am bracing for a disaster coming like a freight train.

  63. Tijn Erde says:

    Even though I occasionally use the in-game transaction history, I’m all for switching to a real-time web-based history.

    I DO agree with the sentiments of others here though, that you should refrain from removing the in-game history until the web-based system has been running without any issues for at least two weeks. You know, just like a regular shadow test; if you get any issue, start counting days from 0 again until the system runs 14 consecutive days without any intervention.

  64. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    Taking away something that works (mostly) and replacing it with something that doesn’t work (mostly) is just plain stupid. The WEB based transaction history has not worked properly for quite a while now and forcing us to depend on it without even testing the “improvements” is irresponsible. When is LL going to wake up and start to act like a real business that cares about its customers?

  65. Regan Turas says:

    * Fixed members of a group cannot set their home location when land is only set to a group and not deeded

    Yay!

    * Fixed folders not retaining their closed status once opened in inventory

    Double Yay!!

    * Fixed rejection of avatars as sit targets

    Uh, what is… never mind, I don’t think I want to go there…

  66. Jim Lumiere says:

    Yet again, Robbin, LL makes a change before completing the work that makes it reasonable. LL should make the web-based reporting stable, accurate and timely before tinkering with the in-World interface.

    When will LL start planning this stuff and looking at impact, designing mitigation plans and roll-back strategies before just charging ahead with a change and then trying to figure out afterward what will be necessary to make it work.

    I can see the benefit to going to web-only. But, seriously. Is the horse ever going to be hitched to the /FRONT/ of the cart? Instead of coming along behind trying to push it?

  67. Feral Mill says:

    Please do not remove the only tool that WORKS in real time for verifying transactions, until you have in place, tested and fully operational an alternative method for dealing with transaction data. The web-based data is anywhere from an hour to a day out of synch with reality. Yes, the web side needs to be improved, but don’t kill the in-world alternative until the web/database replacement is rock-solid.

    By the way, why didn’t Ceera Murakami’s post earlier today in this thread ever show up? She says it doesn’t even show as ‘held for moderator approval’…

  68. Ravanne Sullivan says:

    Do you know what you see if you go to the WEB based transaction history right now?
    NOTHING!!!
    Why are you taking away the only thing that sort of works and forcing us to use something that has been broken forever and that you can’t keep working right?

  69. Attention Linden Labs: Instead of linking outside of the client to the outside browser PLEASE PLEASE use that wonderful mozilla coding already in the client to have an internal browser for this information. There is no need to have two resource hogs running at the same time, especially if they both are based on mozilla!

  70. Kenbro Utu says:

    @ Stephen Zenith

    Did YOU read the part where Lindens said the upgrade SHOULD work to get the web-based transaction page working better? Take a vote of confidence on this and see how many people have faith in the fix. We can just take LL’s approach when it happens and tell them we SHOULD be able to verify their transaction with this new system, the big question is WILL we be able to. There will no alternative if they drop the in-world account history before making sure…

  71. Attention Linden Labs: Instead of linking outside of the client to the outside browser PLEASE PLEASE use that wonderful mozilla coding already in the client to have an internal browser for this information. There is no need to have two resource hogs running at the same time, especially if they both are based on mozilla!

  72. Kala Bijoux says:

    Thank you! I echo the suggestions about making the web based as close to real time as possible, but anything would be better than the 24 hour delay now. It’s 10 times easier for me to search the webpage than the account history.

  73. Bobbyb30 Zohari says:

    Yet another downgrade…

  74. luth brodie says:

    How about before taking away our only ability to compensate for you loosing objects contantly in transactions…

    you FIX transactions.

    you FIX the web based transaction history.

    While I’m going to miss the instant summaries, I did use the web based one more often and did the math in my head. That was until it started to lag 24 hours or more and now I only even look at it when downloading my weekly transaction records.

  75. Darth Juniper says:

    Stephen Zenith said: Amazing how many people managed to read the “we’re removing the inworld transaction history” and yet totally ignored the “we’re going to fix the delays in the web-based history”

    Well Stephen they are not ignoring it… we just have seen this sort of thing so many times from Linden Lab that we know that statements like this are usually not to be trusted, so we assume the worst. For example, every time LL announces there will be an upgrade we must download, I assume that for the next two days I will be plagued by non functioning search, even worse teleporting, inventory items and money vanishing etc. And 90% of the time I’m right. This is why almost nobody believes Linden Lab can fix the web page properly. Espaecially as the web page transaction list has got noticeably slower in the last two months. It didn’t used to be nearly so behind as it is now.

  76. william Fish says:

    not sure why you guys are negative about this. It’s not like the in world account balance link is up to date either… mine is at least 6 hours behind. Hopefully when things get stable they will bring back a different way to view it… and i know there’s in world webpage viewers.. why not use that? What i see here is a few people that dont like to change habits is all.

    Cheers.

  77. Nevera Stooge says:

    ….echo…..

    You should have your replacement working reliably, before removing the original…

    … would you buy a car to replace your aging one… knowing the replacement car might not work?

    We need real time information on all transactions, and I like the inworld module.

    What about offering a secure IM-type program which connects to the transaction data? This would require less resources than a browser and we could run it while in SL…

  78. Lulu Flasheart says:

    @74 william – its not somuch the taking away the inworld report – its the fact that once again Lindens are making one change – taking away inworld – dependent on another working halfway right – web-based – and honestly there track record sucks on stuff like this

  79. Lulu Flasheart says:

    meanwhile of course I can’t actually do any business because the serveer is too busy to upload the texture files I need. Just what we need to be encouraged that these changes will actually help

  80. Funk Schnook says:

    ‘ll be happy with this change as long as we get the SAME summery info we had on the inworld window in REAL TIME!

    If not, then this is another downgrade 😦

  81. @15
    “There are some obvious inconveniences but are they really that bad? I mean its useful but when it needs to account for all the accounts (note it counts for every avatar even if they have no money) its going to become more inconvenient to keep it around. And who doesnt have a calculator or know how to add? lol”

    When I came into this platform, this was something that made facilitating business much easier, and as someone else said, we now will have to manage this… Maybe I DON’T want to bust out with a calculator, and some of you are math majors, but I certainly DON’T have time to research my transactions….

    This platform is slowly degrading into a non-business-condusive environment… Why not eliminate the web version? The in-world version is very rapid for the most part, and is very convenient as not many can open a web browser WHILE running SecondLife, as it (SL) is very resource intensive… Lots of functionality has been removed in the past 6 months from the client, that seems will never return. If the web version handles transactions for me in realtime as the in-world version does, I would be happy (NOT as happy as the in-world instantaneous would keep me 😉

    Sorry for the negative post… 😦

  82. Jacques Groshomme says:

    Do you people even read the whole post? They are taking measures to fix the web-based system.

    And repeat after me again and again… what worked well on a small scale doesn’t always work well on a large scale. For some reason, in-world transaction history placed unnecessary strain on the system. At 15k concurrent residents it wasn’t a problem, at 30k it’s noticeable. So it’s being fixed.

    The viewer is horrible at representing long lists of data anyway. Yay for the web format. The numbers belong in Excel anyway.

  83. @80
    Quit ur bitchin’
    Some of us use this tool, and just because you depend on a faulty system to give you transactions records doesnt mean most of us want to…With LL’s track record of “Resolved”, I’m sure others understand my point of view…

  84. william Fish says:

    76 Lulu Flasheart

    I echo jacques and i’ve said it a few times in here… they are changing the way the transaction webpage gets its info… to a dedicated server just for this type of things. How wonderful is that?

    Sure we could us somethign in world to make it easier for you lazy people (gasp he didnt say that did he?) with new computers that say “i can’t or crash when trying to use a browser and SL.” Look i have a 2001 socket A mobo with less then 1gb of ram and i have no probs running both.. doing so as we speak. The way i look at it is i have the bare min total computer system to be runing SL.

    Lets also remember that the in world account balance is ALSO delayed… mine is delayed up to 6 hours… where’s the fun in that?

    So bottom line honestly it doesnt matter where you get the info from as long as its up to date and accurate right? So if what LL promises us will be real time and accurate, let them do it and support them. Even if it means taking the icing off of your cake.

    Like i said before there’s already scriptors that have created a means to view webpages in world.. .if it really means that much to you.. get one.

  85. Red Dutton says:

    WOOOT another non needed feature removed :))
    no i am not being sarastic :))
    only not enought info on the inworld info :)))))

  86. Please, please please don’t take the inworld Account History (Transaction record) away UNTIL you have tested on the MAIN GRID that your ideas.. and they are just theory until tested, will work !!!!

    We need REAL TIME transaction history. Not a 10 – 20 hour delay on them.

  87. Jim Lumiere says:

    @80 … dont know how long you have been around, but the LL track record isn’t too good for this sort of thing. They consistently make a change and /then/ implement the back end changes that make it a useful/workable/reasonable one.

    They are forever getting the cart before the horse, only to find out the horse is dead or wont work.

    So, a fair number of people are upset that yet once again they are taking away a tool that works, in favor of one that has historically been very broken, and promising /FUTURE/ fixes.

    I dont think anyone disagrees that the inWorld model is unscalable in the long run, and that the web-based solution would be better. It would just be nice if they, like, demonstrated that functionality and stability /BEFORE/ ripping out the one working tool.

    Sad to say, with the way LL approaches these things, I for one dont hold out any hope that this will be a smooth transition.

  88. les says:

    I always thought the ingame transaction history was lacking. Usefull, but missing so much info. I was waiting for it to improve, not fade to black. Then again i was also waiting for island prices to drop and some bugs to be fixed.

    Going web based with sales records is a nice loud way to say SL SUCKS TOO MUCH TO USE so we moved some things off world.

    Chat/IM doesn’t work to well half the time either. Maybe we should play with IRC open? Perhaps we can get hand drawn objects on post-it notes and put them on the screen manualy when we want to rez something. Just pretend SL works.

    I’ve also noticed the friends online from the website is removed.

    One more thing..not being able to send a #$)( group notice to my group since last december is really helpfull too. I had to make a website to get the info out. Cause the in game stuff DOES NOT WORK.

    Any sensible person would close registration untill the infrastructure kept up (if ever). Instead you choose to thin out the wine with water untill we all have low quality swill in our cup and 4 people sitting on each stool trying to eat from the same plate.

    carry on
    (i really have to stop reading this weblog)

  89. Jim Lumiere says:

    They dont mention if maybe we get more history in this new system they hope to have up and running someday. I would certainly like to get access to more historical data. It must exist somewhere … maybe these changes will let them give us access to it?

    Certainly something to hope for …

  90. Usagi Musashi says:

    @ 80
    Do you know how imporant inworld transations are? Frankly you don`t, if you have or had given given monies in a mass array of ways or recive it. You would understand the importants of checking at a instant. At this stage those casino owners, and larger dance clubs are going to have a devil of a time dealing with accounting problems due to the fact LLabs is caring less and less. Content providers like dance clubs, builder etc rely on this support features to know how much and when monies are given to others.

  91. william Fish says:

    @88

    I agree with that fact, there are some useful things with the account history in world that you simply can not get on the webpage. Perhaps LL will put these tools on the webpage for us to use…

    btw transaction webpage log is now 18+ hours delayed. Tuesday doesnt even show up yet.

  92. william Fish says:

    belay my last, it’s 21 hours behind now. monday still isnt up to date.

  93. Jacqueline Trudeau says:

    i thought SL was the new internet? now you are telling us to go back to the *old* internet for a critical part of our day to day. get your paradigms straight, LL. please?

  94. william Fish says:

    the one thing i have found poor about LL is their planning or better yet, their failure to share their planning with us, the paying customers. Perhaps LL is doing this transaction “back to web” way because they want to fix their problems with the whole thing. perhaps this is a back up plan or a detour? We will never know until after the fact as that’s how LL lets us know … after the fact.

    Seems like we learn about bugs, and “features” taken out of SL before they do… or at least they dont want to share with us. Perhaps a little better public communication is in order from LL

    i dunno just a thought.

  95. Chip Midnight says:

    I’m very disappointed by this move. I rely on the in-world account history when I’m in world to see what people have purchased and make deliveries. I will now have to use a browser to do that, breaking the immersion, and being just plain inconvenient. This would be all well and good if we had the in-world browser that was promised however long ago, but we don’t. The format of the in-world account history was also much more useful for copying from to paste into a sales history. That will now require much more editing and formatting causing even more inconvenience. As the platform matures our lives as business owners and content creators should be getting easier with better tools, not more difficult with useful tools being taken away.

  96. Jak Digital says:

    I do love how the website says “Browse or download real time in-world transaction history.” I run a casino and have poeple all the time tell me they lost money in games, chairs, or other places. Quick numbers is a huge requirement for me. I am trying to see transactions for today (it is now 9:09PM SLT/PST) and there are only 2 financial transactions from the first minute after 12AM? How can these transaction numbers be so late. I mean 21 hours late???? NICE REAL TIME. Please don’t remove the ingame financials until you build ONE thing that is stable. Then try redeveloping it. But for now, in game is ALL I HAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  97. william Fish says:

    94 Jak Digital
    even in game is delaid jak.. 6 hours for me

  98. Brooklyn Davis says:

    personally, I dont think this is a good thing. My web based sales transactions list hasnt worked for weeks. The rest of the website is fine, but not that part., inworld is the only place where I can see what is happening and see it real time. Additionally, I have been suffering so much horrible lag and packet loss lately that having to open a web page every time I need to see a transaction … thats gonna be tough

  99. Tijn Erde says:

    What I don’t get is; why would in-game transaction history be slower then web-based?

    Would it really be that difficult to implement a HTTP request in-game, which reads the web-based page and parses it into a convenient display for SL?

    Or rather, do it the way it should be done; as a web-service. How difficult would it be to let the web-server return a .CSV file instead of the formatted .HTML file and use that .CSV file for in-game use?

    You can bet that somebody will just end up making such a tool in-game, offering a dialog-based interface, parsing the data from the .HTML page and displaying them in chat, causing only more lag.

    Since LL can’t be blind enough not to see that simple possibility, it seems the problems aren’t so much with the “in-game” nature of in-game transaction history as there are problems with the frequency at which this information is displayed in-game; the quantity of database queries.

  100. Darth Juniper says:

    I made a salient comment but the Linden Thought Police have moderated it out, probably because I expressed the opinion that 90% of the time their upgrades cause 2 days of non function. My point was that people aren’t ignoring the “we will improve the web” issue – simply that nobody believes it based on past experience.

  101. R0bert Dean says:

    Frankly, you guys have a lot of balls even thinking of making major changes. Adding voice to SL, major changes in transactional reporting.

    This system is a major boondoggle. Your lack of effort in fixing the problems is just mind blowing. I look at it like building major highway, Instead of building additional lanes for traffic, you either add more entrance ramps to invite more people in, or you toss random features and other roadblocks in the main lanes.

    Make sure the damned thing works in tandem, for a while before you take the ingame part away. Because I already know once it is changed you donot know how to fix it.

    Can’t even deliver purchases made on SLExchange without having to re-logon. And NO it is not my machine. And NO it is not my connection. I share a T1.

    Just look before you jump, because one of these “Maintenance patches” might land you out of business.

  102. Stephen Lightworker says:

    THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!! 🙂 🙂 🙂 I’m so glad this is getting fixed.

  103. I for one am very disheartened that you are taking away in-world transaction history. It works. I mean if it works unlike your out of date website does why are “fixing” that? I have many customers and alot still are not listed on the web. To take away the client so many of us rely on before making sure the other is running properly is like running into a wall blindfolded. I am not happy with this new adjustment at all as you said “It should” well shoulda woulda coulda never happens.. Don’t take away the client before you can guarantee that our transactions will be up to the minute and accurate. I can’t even sign on within 20 minutes as it is..now what? so upsetting. 😦

  104. Montgomerry Burns says:

    I use the inworld transaction history EVERY DAY… please don’t take it away from me… not only me, but the thousands of users whose machines can’t handle keeping both the SL client and a web browser open at the same time, will all be seriously inconvenienced by this latest ‘improvement’… didja notice the sarcastic quotes around the word improvement? didja?

  105. @101 It’s that darn mozilla coding in the SL Client that is making your machine work double shift. They need to utilize that stuff more often instead doubling our burdens.

  106. Lulu Flasheart says:

    @82 william – yes i read they are going to “fix” web based delivery – and if you believe that i have some swamp land in Arizona I would like to sell you -cheap cheap cheap – lindens record sucks – if they can fix the web then fix it NOW – then take away inworld reporting at a later date

  107. Lulu Flasheart says:

    oh and while the lindens are at it maybe they will “fix” the asset server so people don’t lose stuff and so that uplaods can take place in a way that I don’t pay twice because it says failed then does it some time later anyway. these server issues have been there for ages and the only way they can “fix” them is to undo functionality – like oh um – the presence server – fix it be reducing in world reporting of who’s on line and oh um delaying the reporting on the web page

  108. Jenika Connolly says:

    Removing the client based account history will be an inconvenience to mant of us, but if the web based account history will be fixed and provide accurate and quick results, I can live with it.

    I think that the most important thing would be for the web based account history to provide more detailed information. The biggest advantage that I appreciate about the client based account history is that it shows me the name of the vendor someone has purchased from. This is how I keep track of which of my stores are profitable and which are just a money sink. The web based history does not show this much information, which is why I do not use it.

    I think that a lot of us would appreciate having the account history record the name of the region in which a transaction has taken place and exactly what it was that was purchased. This is something that is very important to business owners, in the virtual or real world. They have to know which venues are worth keeping and which need to be closed, as well as which products are selling and which are just wasting space and resources.

  109. Isandra Willunga says:

    PLEASE don’t take the ingame information away! The Web History is less informative and most of the business people in SL NEED the informations only the ingame History is giving us.

  110. LoneStar Moonlight says:

    If the integrated Mozilla browser would be useable to view webpages from within SL viewer, using the transaction report web page could be bearable… when is the internal browser going to be something more than the F1 help viewer?

  111. The In world Transaction history is much more informative then the web based transaction history the way i see it in first look now
    the changes to the in world account history are very perplexing to me. In the release notes you say that “Account history is being moved to the web sight”, But the way I see it now in first look you are completely doing away with the information provided in the current in world transaction history. I can understand you putting the Information on the web sight to relieve data base load. I can not Understand you completely doing away with information currently being provided in the in world transaction history. There are many business owners that use this information on a daily basis.
    I also find it perplexing that the page you are directed to when you press the “account history” menu item in world, in the current version of the first look viewer brings you to your US$ account history when since the beginning of SL that menu item would give you L$ account history information.
    I am not against change in any form, but this change is a major change to the service and the way it is being presented to us greatly understates the magnitude of this change.

    _Crucial

  112. camilla Yosuke says:

    I don’t see any major problem with the account history beeing moved to web only,
    *provided that*

    -its is really close to real time
    -the page summarizes daily results, daily details, and allows to browse back in the days, in fact, exactly what the inworld version did

    This second part is crucial for me as a designer to monitor different outlets and products , keep a quick eye on daily charges, without having to download the xml file and sort it in a calc sheet every time I need such an information, ie 5 or 6 times a day .

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