[RESOLVED] My Land and Group Land are enabled again

[Dec. 8 @ 11:28 AM PST] My Land and Group Land have been turned back ON inworld.

[8:33 PM PST] Remember, even though they’re down right now, you can still check:

in Your Account on our website.

[8:21 PM PST] Search > People is back up.

[7:42 PM PST] Search > People, My Land, and group land in Land & L$ is currently off while we stabilize the database. Sorry for the inconvenience.

[7:35 PM PST] Earlier, we turned on Search > Places earlier intermittently to test. Unfortunately, we found further troubles, so it’s back off. 😦

We’ll continue to monitor our database for further issues.

[6:47 PM PST] Many questions have been coming in about Search > Places not working since last week. To emphasize why, as Robin Linden posted to our forums:

As of this writing all Search> functionality is restored except for Search>Places which we have turned off deliberately. Turning it off is allowing us to diagnose and address some of the problems we’ve been having with database load. You may also see us turn off other parts of search for short periods of time while we continue the testing.

[6:28 PM PST] For those of you interested in the technical details behind this, please see Jeska Linden’s post, “Town Hall with Cory Linden, Dec. 20 at 2:30pm PST“. He’ll be present to explain more about Second Life’s underlying technology and where we’re going.

[6:10 PM PST] We apologize for these repeated problems, they wear on all of us. I’m sorry I don’t currently have an ETA, and I wish it was easier. I’ll certainly continue to be here on the blog and inworld.

Behind-the-scenes, we’ve been continuing to work on improving the database load, which has to be stable in order for us to bring back features like Search > Places. The rolling update today is one example of this.

[6:06 PM PST] IMPORTANT: If your L$ isn’t appearing, it’s NOT gone — it’s just not showing. As has been the case previously, it may appear after you’ve waited awhile, and should definitely appear when these issues are cleared up.

From inworld, Char Linden just broadcast:

We are experiencing a few DB issues. Failed to rez, teleporting. Please see blog.secondlife.com for more info. Thanks!

I’ll post updates as we find out more. Thanks for your continued patience.

More info on previous database load issues.

About Torley

Who am I? See http://torley.com/
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126 Responses to [RESOLVED] My Land and Group Land are enabled again

  1. Ricky Lucero says:

    I applaud your consistent updates on grid issues.

  2. Cyrina Menoptra says:

    Do we have an ETA on a resolution for this specific problem? Just curious.

  3. Micheal Steadham says:

    Seems like some of the old problems like rezzing, teleporting, missing inventory are coming back all the time. I was under the impression that the last update was to have taken care of some of these issues. Now they keep coming back. And keep coming back. I know it’s frustrating to you Lindens as well, but we are the ones who are losing inventory items. When we have things to do and places to be, something always seems to happen to distrupt the normal flow of things.

    Is it possible to find the problem, fix the problem and prevent the problem from occuring again? Sounds simple huh, but I know it isn’t.

  4. Temporal Mitra says:

    you also have issues with land databases….when I pull up “my land”…I get nothing…thought you should know

    TM

  5. Cliff Dieffenbach says:

    Issues with group info data as well. Bug report sent.

  6. SeanMcPherson Senior says:

    Same for people search, etc.

  7. Krista says:

    people search isn’t working for me at all…

  8. giri gritzi says:

    when will you EVER get things right. These problems are beginning to be more than just daily but multiple times a day
    Please Fix the client and only do unbreaks once monthly we residents would be MUCH happier

  9. Yes — thanks guys! Please read the previous database load issues, these symptoms will be the same or very similar: Search, teleports, L$ balances, showing info of many different kinds in Second Life, etc.

  10. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    Invisible avi’s + “downloading clothing” is back too, but it doesn’t take altoo long this time. Aside from that… HUD textures still stay very blurry, or turn blurry a while after loading.

  11. Pix Munson says:

    Hope everything goes well in this matter, hope the fix goes well.

    I am having alot of trouble trying to build and deed a small peice of land to a group.

  12. Io Zeno says:

    People search not working and neither is my new hud. : (

  13. Luciftias says:

    Torley, it would be much appreciated if someone would tell us what kind of fixes are planned for the databases issues. I’ve heard rumors of outsourcing the database, rumors of a switch to a more distributed form of asset distribution…but nothing I can believe. If you could give us some details, I’m sure many would appreciate it.

    Thank you for your time.

  14. Doc Nolan says:

    Second Life… just like real life: Nothing ever seems to work, but folks keep on truckin’ nonetheless. When we can go over the problems we all seem to either tunnel under them, detour around them, or just camp out and wait for something to happen… Yep, ever more like real life!

  15. Alora Dana says:

    I’m personally getting a little sick of this. I don’t spend a whole lot of time on SL, and I -DO- pay money, both tier and my premium account fee. This is to the point where I can barely even log in without there being some kind of crippling database problem. Does this mean I’m going to get a discount this month or something? That’d be some customer service there.

    Gah.

  16. figure i point out that linden dollars are not being transfered too much often or not at all

  17. Lucifitias, yes — for that, please look forward to Cory Linden’s upcoming Technical Town Hall:

    http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/12/06/town-hall-with-cory-linden-dec-20-at-230pm-pst/

  18. Becks Newchurch says:

    I won a store in Crumbi and ever since last Wednesday joke of an update my vendors will not work on my land, they will work outside of Crumbi, but not there. I have been seeking live help for advice, finally got a response after waiting about 30 minutes tonight and as soon as i get the response, I crash and no more help from Live Help. Paying for a service, SL, that does not work half the time, is bad enough, but when my items can not be rezzed in my store on a temp rez vendor, it is now costing me sales too. I know this is off topic, but you got to vent where you can.

    thanks

  19. Ralph Doctorow says:

    Hey guys, we are all getting sick of this, but SL is really a work in progress. This is what being on the bleeding edge is like. I agree that it’s all a bit tenuous and I’d love to have it all much stabler too, but bitching at Torely and the Lindens won’t help, it just adds to the unpleasantness.

    I’m not saying this isn’t bad or that LL shouldn’t think carefully about their development process, but this constant pointless complaining in the forums and blogs serves no purpose. Either we’re in or not, and for the time being I’d suggest we stay in and roll with the punches.

    Years from now you can tell your grandchildren that when you were young you had to use a mouse to control your AV, and they shouldn’t be whining for the latest brain implant controller.

  20. Tala taira says:

    linden lab i trust in you’re abilaty to fix these problums i know you are working on it round the clock and these things don’t make life easy for you eather.
    in this time of trouble a kind word can go farther than a harsh one and i would ask my fellow resedents to remember this and do there best to stay calm and trust in the talents of the SL creators
    may you find all the soultions soon

  21. hope rosetta says:

    i have 40 prims available…and i cant rez because land full? a two prim object no less…lol. when i can rez the stuff rezzes, well, not on my property. lol my poor neighbors…i’m doing major construction. if you’re reading this neighbors, lol, im sorry!

  22. Lash says:

    Tell you what though, the old adage “Save often” doesn’t help here. I’ve lost well over an hours work, even though it was successfully saved in world. One script totally disapeared, and another reverted to a version from several saves earlier. I suggest you scripters out there keep a local copy of ALL your scripts on your computers.

  23. Ralph, along the same lines, I don’t think it can ever be too obvious how we Lindens, since we’re behind Second Life, which is this incredible Resident-created world at its heart, we want the best. No good parent would benefit from maiming, or even killing, their children. (I know that’s a stretch of the imagination — yet, this is a world to explore your imagination.)

    I can personally say how good I want Second Life to be, and how I want to see *your* happy Second Lives being lived, with disruptions being minimized, with crap throttled down. There’ll always be problems, social, technical, and otherwise — humanity is rife with them — but in building what we believe is a better place in this new world (again, a stretch to some, but this has certainly been true for me, and I know many people who come here for happiness), it deserves to benefit in such a way that, in the future, we can look back and say “This is what it took to get here, and it was worth it.”

  24. database issues , like missing images , lost inventory , missing attachments , oh yes update your system issues…. well if lindens would hire people that know what their doing in the first place we wouldn’t bein this database problems, things like that should not happen especially if our dollar is at risk and things missing that lindens wont replace or compensate with money even if people have proof of purchase , also *We value free expression. However, stuff that’s off-topic, abusive, or otherwise busts the rules will be removed without comment.* that statement is not fair interfers with the first admendment of the US .

  25. Sweet says:

    Here we go AGAIN
    well past week lost so much stuff from my inventory and no one on Live AKA(Dead) help will answer… i did file a bug report and NO response as usual …how long do we have to go through these database issue its been over 2 months now …Lost work lost inventory, textures dont stay on objects even after saving they revert back lag lag lag im ready to pull my hair out no support from anyone ever this game has gone down the tubes beyond control…. what does it take to get a few more servers or let us back up our own inventories so we dont lose MONEY ALOT of money that we spend on in world items! my gawd already what does it take to fix this

  26. Neogrinch says:

    Brothers and Sisters Of Second Life, in this oh so troubled time We must stand together. The World is very different now, and we are all facing hardships. We must not forget that the Lindens are not our enemies, they are our friends and our leaders. They are the pioneers of this great world we call Second Life and we must stand behind them and place trust in their wisdom and judgement as they make this world a better place. My fellow SLer’s: ask not what Second Life can do for you – ask what you can do for Second Life.

    😛

  27. Mojavewolfpup Hearn says:

    maybe people need to start doing chargebacks on their accounts and telling their bank that LL defrauded them for that month of service they never provided. slap LL with enough charge backs and that will get the ball rolling for LL to wake up and take notice, rather then take money out and continue on.

  28. Cybster Curtis says:

    All these issues have brought my inworld sales to a halt. Usually my costs are covered by sales but I’ll have to dip into my own pocket this month. Shouldn’t there be deferred fees until these issues are fixed?

    Directory and classified fees don’t come close to lost sales.

  29. Fledhyris Proudhon says:

    I know this is slightly off topic but I haven’t had a response yet from multiple live help queries, a bug report or a support email… I log in with my alt at least once a week and collect the stipend, as well as my main paid account stipend. This week, main account receives $L, alt doesn’t. There has to be some kind of bug going on there, right? I know everyone whinges that people shouldn’t get free money, and if you do decide to negate that particular policy then fine; but there has been no notice about this and my other basic account friends have received their stipends as normal. It’s not a huge deal but it would be nice to get some feedback, one way or another 🙂 I’m sure you’re all working hard on the DB issues but I’m thinking this is just another example.

    Alternatively, I wonder if you have to log in by a certain *time* on ‘pay day’ to get your stipend..? The info just says once a week but I’ve always logged in on Tuesday if not before, and it’s never failed me yet…

    Thanks ^_^

    (And no, to the nasty minded, I don’t have an alt just to collect ‘free money’ so don’t even start ¬¬ )

  30. ahhh database issues is live help a database issue ,where are they when you need help , hehehe yeah i was about to say and bring that up too and when they answer they make you feel like the villian when we are trying to get help answer i used to get and still do “its your graphics card” lol

  31. Amy Faddoul says:

    I’m not terribly interested in the wrecknowlogy behind SL anymore so much as just curious to see when and if you will be able to overcome the recent issues. The fact you fail to see the forest for the trees is somewhat disconcerting. To put it simply. Lindenlabs has tried to float a battleship in a mudpuddle, bit off more then they can chew etc etc..Riddle me this Lindenlabs. How many resident’s/logins can your hardware support at it’s current levels? I dunno if yall have noticed this but the problems start when the resident logins hit a specific magical number..I’m guessing some place in the 14-16k range online at once. A large bergs worth of humanity all rezzing prims, hitting search, running scripts and shooting guns all at the same time. Well, heres an idea and you don’t even have to drop your “Milkcow” Non verified alt spammin new little friends. Split this puppy up. “Segregate” it for a couple of weeks. Slap the crush of humanity that is the last 6 months into one Database server to crash and burn every five minutes and let us old geezers have your only marginally unstable tiny little plots of heaven back. Just think. Your new Investors would have 3 Secondlifes worth of space to advertize on, the teens would still be in underwear, the Griefers would be in freebie gun heaven and the rest of us could get back to doing what we do best. Being Geeks.

    Thank you for your consideration. L. Amy

  32. Fledhyris Proudhon .. i can answer you on that , lindens said in a forum report one time the beginning of ’06 that if you possibliy log in on friday by tuesday your garintee the 50 stispend on a regular acct basic acct that was before all the changes dunno what it is now so far it that still works!

    think that will help you

  33. AzaelB says:

    i used to get and still do “its your graphics card” lol

    Well, don’t keep us in suspense…was it your graphics card?

  34. Sweet says:

    Neogrinch Says: We must not forget that the Lindens are not our enemies, they are our friends and our leaders.

    if they are our leaders i want an election cus i’d be voting them out of office in a heartbeat

  35. election sounds good ….lol , oops lost inventory ballots…. LMAO database issue strikes again!

  36. Chez Nabob says:

    “As of this writing all Search> functionality is restored except for Search>Places which we have turned off deliberately.”

    That statement is patently false. Last time I checked, classified ads were still not functioning properly. I understand that LL is working to restore things, but making statements like the one above is extremely frustrating to people whose businesses depend on classified ads. In fact the classifieds are even more important now than before with places searches not working.

    I guess what I’m saying is, it bothers me when LL tries to paint this picture (intentionally or not) that everything works except this one thing. That’s just not the case, and everyone here knows it.

    I’ve asked these questions multiple times elsewhere, but gotten no answer, but hey, I’ll ask again for fun.

    1. When can we expect classified searches to function as before?

    2. Short of being able to answer question no. 1, why has it taken 8 days now to give us a concrete answer on what’s being done to fix this? What is LL’s plan of action to fix this? Is there a plan at all? If not, why not?

    3. It’s clear that the last update has caused MAJOR problems and crippled a vital part of SL. Why don’t you roll back to the previous version of the client until you can get these issues ironed out?

    I’d much rather have the ability to do basic searches than be able to grant or take away friends’ ability to see me on the map!

    Maybe I’m wrong, but I don’t think I’m alone in that sentiment.

  37. Winter Ventura says:

    The advertisement for “Warf Ventura” contains the word “hover” in the body text.
    The word is not present in the title of the ad.
    Searching for “hover” does not return the ad.

    Please resist using phrases like “all Search> functionality is restored” until ALL search functionality, as we knew it, has been restored.

    When can we expect this to be fixed?
    When will I see a refund for the week of service you did not provide?

  38. Magnum Serpentine says:

    Map is not working right. For a while all the islands did not appear now about 1/6th of them are showing up but many others are not showing up and no people showing up on mainland. Strange.

  39. Magnum Serpentine says:

    And just as I wrote that, the other islands appear and people are now showing up on the mainland. Please ignore my message right above this one thanks

  40. Hibernian Yellowjacket says:

    Place search was working for a while but is offline again, wtf?

  41. Matteo says:

    OMG i went into my livingroom and my tv is gone. Found a note from Linden Labs “sorry about the tv, database issue”

  42. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    These database issues are unacceptable! You state you are going to change little things and it messes up HUGE things! The major rw game developers would lose money BIG time if they put out a program like this. No one would buy it.

    You tell us we have to accept the fact that the higher ups can take this game down at ANYTIME and still charge us when it doesnt work. Amazing. Here I am stuck in a shop and cant teleport anywhere. Im tired of PAYING for a game that I cant GAME!

    I feel bad for the builders, scripters and designers. Im just alittle peon that comes in to play and shop! How can you create when you cant provide the so called database in the first place?? Ive been here over just one year and it seems to get worse and worse.

    Im done ranting!
    *grumbles and shuffles off to bed*

  43. Io Zeno says:

    Can’t rez or give objects right now. *sigh*

  44. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    Hmmm..I wonder what NBC thinks of all this? Hmmmm….

  45. my two cents , if LL goes back to the last update and disregards this update ,it wouldn’t do any good because the issues that got us to this update issues where like 5 updates ago. See my thorey is LL covers up the little bugs unintentionally hoping no one notices it and mis communication from techs that think they covered up all the bases and skip a red tape step because LL is in a hurry to get the client out> Well they think its ok to release when its a time bomb waiting to explode into bigger issues , like pose balls not interacting with multi players , missing images ,disappearing dropped objects before your eyes going poof and no where to be found, shadow above your toes instead of under your toes or your avatar floating an hairline above the ground while your walking which is also gone unnoticed by residents .

    Search issues as to do with the new tab web feature that they added to the profiles causing a bug that was covered up by a fix of another bug fix . its a chain reaction .

    Lindens try not to panic anyone because of their techs but we all know everyone is intitled to a mistake etc etc

  46. Stormy says:

    I’ve just logged in, after an evening away, to find that not only has my inventory vanished but everything I was wearing (skins etc) gone and the char prim completely reset. Is this all part of the ongoing issues? Is it all lost for good? Will I be reimbursed the actual, real, money spent on all of that stuff?

  47. Alexander Regent says:

    @Sweet and others.

    Give the poor grid monkeys a break 🙂 At the start of this year there were less than 200K users…..By same time 2007 2 million…. That kind of exponential growth is bound to experience issues.

    Not to mention they are pushing mySQL beyond the limits of normal users and running into software bugs which are not their own.

    So the fact that the whole thing hasn’t crashed for 3 or 4 days as AOL and Ebay did in their early days or even the proto internet in the 70’s well……some of those grid monkeys are pretty darn clever.

  48. Matteo says:

    Alexander

    They are not even close to 2million unique users. Id guess around 80 to 90% of all the people new are the allready inworld griefers and scammers. If you dont beleive me check out Second Citizen forums where they brag about have 50 to 100 alts each and being the cause of grid attacks. So just the fact that they allowed the free accounts to be open to all the trouble makers. So it is kinda of there fault. You eliminate free accounts, you would cut way down on grey goo and other attacks. You would cut down on this so called heavy load. So we the ones who pay to play could actually get what were payinf for.

  49. Lewbowski says:

    Is this game/world/application/ EVER going to work right? I mean, EVER?

    Not a constructive question, I know… but I used up all my constructive comments a frigging week ago.

  50. miche rainbow says:

    Just my two cents:

    It’s funny when ppl complain so much and say things like “noone would pay for a game with problems like this”, obviously you’ve never seen everquest lol….Second Life is on the forefront of internet possibilities, and of course there are going to be problems with any new thing. The update didn’t cause the issues alone, the major growth right now is more of a cause, the update may have just instigated it. And ironing out these issues now would be a lot better than just saying “oh no, we’re having database issues, lets just ignore future problems and roll the version back”….they tested this version majorly on the test grid, so maybe you think that these extra database features like show on map and everything just put load on the main grid database, that will be there in the near future anyways, and it couldn’t have been anticipated that it couldn’t handle it fully at the moment, especially with the growth that SL has seen even in the past week. . Let them iron out the problems now rather than have bigger problems later.

    I have over $1000US stake in SL right now, and have lost over $50US worth of objects, and i know better to whine about the issues because that doesn’t remedy the situation. LL knows that these issues are causing hardship and are doing everything in their power to fix it, it’s obvious that they are, with the region rolling and testing the search functions. Yelling at them just makes you sound ungratefull for what they have offered you thus far.

    Think before you speak and offer praise instead of evil, because offering evil gets you evil.

  51. Chez Nabob says:

    @ Miche

    There aren’t any more people online right now than there was before the update, so your argument that this increased load is the issue doesn’t really hold water.

    SL has had 15-16K users online at any one time for months now, and there were no issues with search functionality having to be turned off before the last update.

    I do understand that these are complex issues. Fine. Not a problem, but when something so basic doesn’t work and continues to not work for an extended period of time, I think you have to start looking at the possibility that you need to take a step back to a point where it did work.

    No harm in that. Nothing to be ashamed of there. Take a step back and work on the issue some more and re-introduce it when you think you’ve got the problem solved.

    As for seeming ungrateful, well I guess that’s a matter of opinion. I certainly am grateful for the creative outlet SL provides, but I’d like it to work properly at the same time.

    I’d also like some concrete answers to the above questions. Perhaps I can be a little more grateful once that happens. I think waiting 8 days for answers is quite long enough, and I don’t think it’s unfair or unreasonable to expect LL to answer those questions. Certainly they’ve had enough time to formulate some kind of plan, timetable, etc., and I think it’s time they started sharing the specifics.

    However, I’m losing confidence in that ever happening.

  52. Angelo Walcott says:

    >>>As of this writing all Search> functionality is restored except for Search>Places which we have turned off deliberately. Turning it off is allowing us to diagnose and address some of the problems we’ve been having with database load. You may also see us turn off other parts of search for short periods of time while we continue the testing.

    So, let me wonder why the top 25 has not been “turned off deliberately” and why the places featured in there are quadruplicating traffic since last few weeks. Basically all the grid is deserted except the few spots featured in the top 25, that are actually attracting huge traffic JUST BECAUSE the other ones are impossible or too hard to find. If this is the new policy about the ‘equal opportunity’ in competing for traffic based on the quality of the products you build and sell, let me say as openly as I can that I sincerely feels betrayed, deluded, completely pissed. Moreover, let me ask how might I compete to be featured in the top 25 if my place is almost unfindable. And let’s see if somebody, at least in here, accept to give some answer to all that, since any request for support about those topics I have addressed to the live help has been competely ignored.

  53. Kenbro Utu says:

    Hey Torley, have you abandoned the “restoring inventories” thread? Been a long time since any updates there, people still with empty inventories…

  54. Rock Ramona says:

    Finally!!! At Last!!!!Everyone needs to scroll back up to what Amy Fadoul said,INCLUDING YOU PHILLIP!!!!Give us back our SecondLife,Put the free unverifieds on their own servers and let them grief each other till the friggin cows come home and let us be!!!!!I paid 28 bucks yesterday to my landlord then couldnt log on,then when i finally logged on had to spend 3 hours stuck in a freakin furniture store cuz i couldnt go no where!!!!!!!!!!We never used to have these problems before like we are having them now.Its getting to the point now where whats the point of even logging in?Youve gotten your interviews,youve gotten your press and your numbers are here,fine.Now how bout making people smile again,and how bout Amy Fadoul for President of Second Life!!!!!!

  55. Vanessa says:

    @ Chez

    Your rollback question was answered earlier today in the Linden Answers forum (http://forums.secondlife.com/showthread.php?t=153403) by Kelly:

    “No, it is not. 1.13 included configuration changes and database schema changes as well as changes to some content (new script calls etc). Because of these it is not possible to roll back to 1.12.x.”

  56. Chez Nabob says:

    @Vanessa

    Thanks for the info.

  57. Rose Bradley says:

    “Thanks for your continued patience.”

    Do you bother to read the comments? Shop owners are losing lots of money, because we cannot use the search feature.

  58. Fledhyris Proudhon says:

    @BrightAngel
    Thanks for the advice.. hmm, was being paid before on only a 1-day-a-week login, but maybe they sneakily changed it for December >.> I’ll make sure I login tomorrow just to be sure!

    LOL yeah an election in SL would suffer more chaos and vote jigging than Bush’s first term win.

    And shadows/avies floating a hairline above the ground?? Man if that were the only issue I’d be floating on my toes IRL XD

    @miche
    I’m so sorry, I completely forgot that LL was a charitable organisation, and that we’re all meant to be helping *them* ;-P My bad. I would actually be okay with that though, if they just kept it to a workable scale. But the only reason we’re in this mess is the greedy unrealism of upper management. I have nothing but respect for the Lindens working at ground zero against conflicting demands and overwhelming odds, but it is not evil to point out bad company policy when it makes everyone suffer. If LL were a government, we’d vote them out, but since they are a business, the only way they’ll go out is to go under – most of us actually *don’t* want that and are trying to make them see sense before it’s too late.

    This is a blog, and blogs invite opinion. Opinion is a good general indicator of morale. Morale is depressingly low. Give me something to cheer about, and I will!

  59. Angelo Walcott says:

    @rose

    >Shop owners are losing lots of money, because we cannot use the search feature.

    Not the ones featured in the top 25 search menu, they are actually quadruplicating the traffic, since our places are basically unfindable. My shops dropped from 10k and 6k traffic to 2k and almost 0. My sales reduced by 25% last week and are dramatically dropping to 1/5 of the typical weekly amount during this one. I think many of us are in the same position.

  60. Alexander Regent says:

    @Matteo: See you are guessing. I have spoken with a few folks at Linden and know straight from the Engineers horses mouth that only about 10-15% are redundant accounts. Which would track with greifers being a very small but very annoying percentage of the population.

    As for freebie accounts, I’m all for coming up with some sort of gating system for letting premium accounts in first. I’ve been a paying premium customer since day one. But the freebies are the ones that drive the usage numbers. And the ultimate goal of second life, from what I have gleaned so far, is not to remain a walled garden for the few who pay, but to be able to open up to all the world as Web 3.0. So again, thank you for your patience and support I think sums it all up 🙂

  61. Just a thought says:

    to all those complaining about the classifieds search:

    How hard is it to take down your current classified ad and place a new one up that works in this new system?

    The answer? Not hard at all.

    The current system seems to work more like the Yellow Pages in that it no longer looks through the listings and the body text line by line. Let’s face it, who actually reads, in depth and line by line, each and every line in the Yellow Pages or in your newspaper classifieds for that matter? You don’t, I don’t.

    Frankly I’m glad they did this, now if they’d only alter it so that the classifieds were sorted from A to Z, were ALL 50L each (no more of this higher up the list for more money crap. AV makers, big artists, land barons … you don’t have any room to complain, the little guys do), a list that auto populates the entire classifieds directory on selection of that tab with the OPTION of narrowing the search down (for those complaining, why not make it search the body text as well as the title).

    What an amazing concept ….. and one that’ll get my arse shot.

  62. miche rainbow says:

    @ Chez Nabob
    The SL database has grown by over 500,000 ppl in the past 2 months and about 100,000 in the past week, that is a huge increase in the size of the database, to what the ppl hold in their inventory. The online numbers in september averaged around 10,000 at high points. I know these things because i log in every single day for very long periods…in the past 5 days i’ve been on for 3 days and 8 hrs.

    @ Fledhyris Proudhon
    I understand what your saying, what my post wasn’t directed at you. I can understand constructive critisism, but when ppl say stuff like “get off your ass and work” and stuff, it really makes them look greedy and ignorant. They are working their asses off for you ppl and all you have to say is work harder?

    I don’t know the specifics behind what the orders are from the top, but when there are errors like this I’m sure they are doing the best they can. The errors lower profitability and that, for any business, is not good at all.

    I do agree in the fact that i think they need to get more database servers up and sort out the database problems, but this can’t be done with more errors involved. First they need to get it stable, then they can think about adding more servers. But even two months ago there was rolling updates and rez problems as well as lag problems, the lag problems i think are a lot better since the update, but that’s just my opinion.

    I also agree that they should have a timetable. But there’s also the thing that maybe their timetable is just ‘as soon as possible’.

  63. Matteo says:

    Wow Alex you actually think they would tell the truth, i doubt it. I think the main point of every ones anger is the way we are treated and kept out of the loop by LL. In my buisness, if I have a problame where i dont get concrete on time, workers get sick, or there is just a plain screw up. The customer comes back at me, I cant ban them from forums or ban them from life. I end up having to give them there money back or taking a big loss on the job. yet LL offers us nothing to compensate us for all our trouble. They dont relize how much money and time alot of us have invested in this game. We sit here loosing sales everyday now, and all we can do is nothing. How about some acountability on the part of someone.

  64. miche rainbow says:

    @Matteo

    They have shown at least some accountability to business owners by autorenewing the classified ads for another week and having the places ad free for last week.

  65. Matteo says:

    No offense to LL but 50 cents to even 2 bucks dont cut it. When you look ay some of our sales records and see that we are down 100,000L or more in sales because of grid issues.

  66. miche rainbow says:

    I do agree with that Matteo, but in holding a business you have to understand that problems arise with location. eg. America decares war on Iraq…you can’t ask America to refund you for your losses with advertising if they bomb the news office.

    In knowing that problems may arise with SL, it’s your job to handle your finances so it won’t hurt as much. Now, I’m not saying that saying that you are dissapointed with having to do this to LL is inherently wrong, or even telling them that you are loosing major profits because of this, because that does help them understand the bigger scope of the issue at hand. And how you said that in the last post does reflect a good way of making your concern known.

  67. wait wait wait….. I found that I dont really need search… I have tons of land marks of places before the search was out , so what i do is go to a landmark and do in world search..i find others just go to the two online websites of sl items and buy like that also like LL said go to profiles and find places like and what i used to do and doing again is flying around but yeah its sad when your trying to look for christmas trees and items but thats just me i find what others have a hard time finding because if i want something bad enough I find the hard way , you can IM me in world be happy to find or keep and eye out . If im not esleep lol

  68. Angelo Walcott says:

    >I do agree with that Matteo, but in holding a business you have to understand that problems arise with location. eg. America decares war on Iraq…you can’t ask America to refund you for your losses with advertising if they bomb the news office.

    @miche

    Is not a question of refunding, just of trying not to manage the issue for the worst as it is actually happening, for example stressing unloyal trusts by restoring the top 25 serch option. until it happened I was ready to wait for weeks without complaining, but after that I am more and more frustrated. Just tell me how the hell can a shop not featured in the top 25 enter the chart since the place search is disabled. Not even if you sell the best stuff ever made in the whole sl you can compete with the shops actually boarded in the top 25, since they are way too easy to be found in respect of your disappeared shop.

  69. Sage V. says:

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  70. miche rainbow says:

    @Angelo

    I agree with the top 25 thing. I own my own shop, and feel the pain when places goes down. But maybe the top 25 is easier to fix since there’s no searching involved and maybe it’s on a seperate database from the places search so it was easier to fix.

  71. Sativa Prototype says:

    God Torley I feel sorry for you. How much rah rah rahing can one person do?

    SL loves us and doesn’t want to maim its children?

    How about fixing the f-ing system? SL has had nothing but problems since I have been on, over two years, and I have no hope of it ever being fixed and cancelled my account a few weeks ago.

    So rather than coming in with big hugs, which no offense seem stupid, how about you go pull some of this go team spirit with the other Lindens and actually fix the basic core issues with this game.

    Blissfully waiting for my avatar to be erased
    Sativa

  72. Ishtara Rothschild says:

    miche rainbow Says:
    December 7th, 2006 at 10:01 PM PST
    “I do agree with that Matteo, but in holding a business you have to understand that problems arise with location. eg. America decares war on Iraq…you can’t ask America to refund you for your losses with advertising if they bomb the news office.”

    I find that example a little odd… when I try to apply it to our situation, it turns out like this: LL declared war on the grid and bombed us, now we can’t ask for refunds. Uhm…

  73. miche rainbow says:

    @Ishtara
    yeah…i worded that wrong….it should say that you expect to get refunded from the newspaper office even tho they don’t have the money to…

    Anyways….i have to head to bed

  74. stephe ehrler says:

    I also feel abused by the opening of the top 25. At least when all of it was down we were on equal footing. This just seems like they trying to help the people on the top 25 get massive sales while the database is hosed from the overload of people.

    I basically have given up on making money in world between constant griefer attacks (everyone of them has been no payment info fresh acounts and not a one of them have been baned after being reported, stopped bothing to send in reports as obviously they are ignored), this latest auto rezzing thing and all the hassles with trying to deal with this. Every time I run an event which I personally host, it just attracts hords of griefers and all the people leave. Total waste of my time.

    I’m sure this coment will be deleted but if they don’t deal with these continual griefer attacks, this place is going to be totally useless to anyone. If they think “web 3.0” is going to be accepted as a place where griefers and hackers can run rampant, they are delutional.

  75. bruno says:

    I really respect Lindens and I already had a lot of amusement in SL, but I am VERY VERY TIRED WITH THESE BUGS. I didn’t buy more LINDENS and I think in canceling my account premium. Sorry, but I need to speak the truth.

  76. Cocoanut Koala says:

    I haven’t read all the replies, so someone may have already pointed this out.

    But – search functionality has NOT been restored. On Classifieds, it will now search out every word of the title of the place/business, but NOT the words in the description.

    It used to search the words in the (very limited) description. Therefore, the functionality has not been restored. It has been partially restored.

    coco

  77. @ bruno
    darling don’t quit ,
    I think LL should extend everyones acct for a month at least as a good gesture , I know the cable companys gives a few days when the cable goes out for tech problenms “NOT OF OUR OWN DOING” but that is my local cable company
    @ cocoanut , yes darling it was adressed thats why this message blog was set to say search is still down.
    LL will tell every one to file a bug report so they can address the issues

  78. StevenSDF Fisher says:

    It would be nice if the search could allow some more advanced options, like I noticed when searching for land, it searched for land >= input sq.m. But why not allow to be more specific, like equal to, greater than, less than and between options. And an option to limit the number of returned results.
    Maybe with the limit it might help the database usage some, I’m not a pro, but I would have thought it might help.

    From what I’ve seen all over the Internet, the symptoms make it looks like the DB is too large for itself. 😮
    There has to be some way for removing old tuples, putting inactive accounts somewhere else and the objects that are only referenced by them somewhere else too.

    ah wells, I’ll shut up. XD 😛 :O

  79. StevenSDF, a number of residents have asked for “between X and Y” for price and area for a long time, plus extra flaggable options such as whether its roadside or waterside, snow or grass etc. Perhaps it’s something to bring up at the technical town hall?

    I completely agree that purging old accounts that haven’t signed in for 6 months would be a very, very good move on LL’s part. Send everyone an email informing them, giving 2 weeks notice, then its not the fault of LL if their dormant account is deleted. For those that provided fake email addresses when signing up… unlucky.

    Broccoli

  80. StevenSDF Fisher says:

    Broccoli, well as LL don’t seem to like deleting old accounts unless someone tells them they can, like via the website. That’s why I though of not deleting them, but moving them to a different DB, so making the current one smaller, but keeping the old accounts as they were.

    I suppose one of the biggest problems with getting rid of accounts is if they have any money in them. But that could be solved like some of the banks I know solve account closures, they just stick the money in their central pool and if you want to transfer it later, you can request it or something (I never read that part.) XD

    I wonder about creating an archive of object you don’t use. You can add objects to it from your inventory, and I don’t know, request them back via the website if you really need them. Then some time later, they get placed back in the main DB and into your inventory. Hmm.

  81. deleting old accts isnt gonna solve anything because they pay and bought things just like everyone else and rl stuff happens that people cant get in for one reason or another if people don’t want there acct they have the *cancel option* and if they are still in its because they wanna stay in and also another thing some people can’t still get in their acct because of the password scare a feww months back and until they jog their memory they are out and its not fair to them that some whanna delete to clear the database , the accts are on a different server as is search, and inventory according to some lindens so clear that thought out of the fix mode. example: what if you were held up in the hospital for 7 months and you come back thinking your acct is safe and only to come to find its been deleted I would sue LL for deleting hundreds of purchasdise because the fact remains its RL behind the linden dollar and i would sue those aging it on . especially if I was a creator with selling items in vendors !

  82. Precursor Pooraka says:

    @ Amy Fadoul & Rock Ramona: That really wouldn’t be a sensible business idea for LL now would it? You’re not going to give new customers a deliberately unstable service. As for the instability at the moment, this of course is not intentional. Segregating people doesn’t sound like a very good principle either.

    However, you do raise a very good point which makes me think: Why not limit the grid numbers to a set level for the time being, until additional work/hardware/etc can be done? Give older members a priority for logging in, therefore in the short term the grid becomes more stable until works to rectify can be carried out. New members can still sign up, LL still gets their signup fees, we get a stable grid, everyone’s happy (to an extent) – am an idealist 😛

    As someone quite rightly said earlier, this is bleeding edge and you are going to get problems. It comes down to the motto “If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen”. I understand people are very frustrated, but ranting insanely at the Lindins will not solve anything, only foster a spirit of animosity and delay their work further. People are always free to stop using the service, or downgrade to a free account. Although I understand that business are unable to do this, but maybe my above suggestion about limiting numbers would work?

    It has also been suggested a “limit” or “top 25” on search results – seems like a good idea to me, then if you want the next set of results, you can request them. Most people will probably not, so it will ease load on the DB’s maybe?

    I think this is a great community, and would ask people to hang in there. LL are not sitting on their butts, but in fact working them off no doubt. Believe me I’m frustrated too, but suggestions and ideas are more useful than rants and raves, but if you can’t live without your “pound of flesh” then just take a moment to think that it isn’t good for LL to have these problems, they have probably lost customers, spending in-world is down, etc, so they will feel it financially. Feel vindicated yet? Good, now stop ranting 🙂

    Seriously my fellow residents, take a step back, a deep breath and calm down – as I have done, I came to the conclusion ranting was pointless. Repeat the mantra…. 😛

    Lastly, Torley….. hang in there buddy (never easy being the public face). Remember to buy a rain coat and umbrella for when they start throwing rotten fruit and rioting 😛

  83. Zonax Delorean says:

    I am sorry, but this is getting just PATHETIC!

    I know it’s not easy for Lindens, but if my company was Linden Labs, I know ALL of the employees would be working on fixing these problems all day and all night, until they’re fixed, with top priority.
    The grid is not totally usable since last Wednesday, this is getting catasthrophic.

    L$’s, item, etc. disappearing, search not working fully, etc.

    Please HALT, I mean STOP ALL NEW REGISTRATIONS at once!
    Write a message that ‘due to the system errors, no new registrations are currently accepted’.

  84. Aerial9 Soothsayer says:

    When all is said and done…bugs/glitches fixed…how about doing us a favor…skip any updates for about the next 6 months.I have come to notice recently,that what appears to be monthly game updates only produce a months worth of bugs/glitches and as soon as the kinks are worked out,the game goes back to square one with another update and another round of bugs/glitches.

  85. Alex Warrior says:

    G’day Torley

    I now come to the blog before I log into world. I read ALL that is said – and that means many postings from Linden Lab because I live in Australian time so I am not “inworld” when most stuff happens.

    So I get informed when I read the blogs and therefore I do not bother to report bugs that Linden Lab are already aware of.

    On topic – am I right to assume from the last 12 hour postings that:

    a) My land is accessible from the web page (meaning it’s not from inworld?)
    b) My group lists are accessible from the web page (meaning they are not from inworld?)
    c) My friends list is accessible from the web page (meaning not from inworld?)
    d) My Linden dollar balance is on your database (but it’s not accessible from inworld?)
    e) My inventory might be missing (but it’s still on your databases?)

    Sorry – might have missed some other things. Please advise if I have this correct and if I have missed some any thing?

    Cheers
    Alex Warrior
    aka Janine Au

  86. Arianna Oranos says:

    I have refrained from commenting on the recent issues, but this is just getting utterly ridiculous. The desire – I restrain myself from using a stronger, more appropriate wording – to exceed the magic million has done absolutely nothing to enhance the SL experience. Most of the recently born avatars I’ve met were unverifieds. Most of them were, are and will forever be entirely unable to grasp the meaning and the importance of even the slightest trace element of MANNERS. I’ve seen far too much griefing from all these unverifieds (the introduction of this feature was the most harmful idea I’ve seen in SL) and, given the thriving adult industry within SL, they’re a child abuse scandal waiting to happen. Yes, I do believe that a great portion of the problem is down to the existence of the option to create unverified accounts.

    How exactly do all these unverifieds support the SL system? Don’t tell me they buy L$ from Lindex, because then they’d be at least “payment info on file”. They don’t spend anywhere near the money a verified user is likely to spend. And how could they anyway? They don’t pay any subscription, thus they do NOT contribute financially to the maintenance and upgrade of the hardware supporting SL. What they basically are is database load, that the PAYING members have to support. Furthermore, when an unverified violates the TOS so badly that s/he has to be banned, s/he can be back in less than ten minutes as if nothing ever happened, simply because, without avatars being connected to real life persons, accountability does not exist.

    Now, let us imagine what would happen if EVERY disillusioned subscriber downgraded his/her account to non-paying:

    1. They wouldn’t own land anymore, so all those shops would be gone.
    2. They wouldn’t pay any subscription to SL, so system maintenance and upgrade would be harder.

    Now let us present an even worse scenario for SL: No one buys L$ anywhere. Obviously, this will lead to everyone in SL having an incredibly low income. Merchants and content creators will no longer be able to charge the prices they charge, which will seriously hurt their income. Thus, they will quickly lose their motivation to stay in SL. Anyone care to imagine the state this would leave the SL economy in?

    I honestly don’t think SL needs millions of non-subscribing residents. Call me an elitist, a racist, whatever you like, but I think that abolishment of the relatively newfangled idea of free, unverified accounts (perhaps replacing them with 30-day trial accounts) would provide LL with the following:

    1. A dedicated user/client base. You simply *must* want to be involved in SL if you’re willing to pay for it.
    2. EVERYONE will contribute to the maintenance costs of the system, balancing out the cost of their inventory database.
    3. A user that is willing to subscribe to SL is more or less guaranteed to support the SL economy and LL’s funds in a much more effective way than an unverified. Why? Simply, because a verified user is far more likely to spend serious L$, buy L$, get involved in the SL economy.
    4. ACCOUNTABILITY. It is far easier to take effective disciplinary measures against a verified user who violates the TOS than it will ever be with an unverified. We know it full well: ban an unverified griefer, he’ll come back within minutes. Ban a verified user, and you won’t see him/her again for as long as the ban lasts.
    5. Combining ID verification with AGE verification greatly reduces the risk of SL being accused of doing nothing to prevent children from working in the virtual sex industry.

    That said, I hope the issues will be resolved quickly and I also hope my suggestions, which have already been made numerous times by hundreds of dedicated SL users, will finally be listened to; or is this latter hope vain?

  87. Arianna Oranos says:

    And furthermore, Precursor made an excellent suggestion:

    Give login and database priority to the paying members. Let the unverifieds wait a bit.

  88. Stroker says:

    I am sure I speak for most Merchants when I say that this has been one of the worst weeks for sales in SL’s history. I don’t care what the Lindex say’s, EVERYONE I know is off by 50-70%. Consumer confidence is at an all time low. Why buy something if its just going to disappear? Continual search and classifieds difficulties make it nearly impossible to shop for specific items or locations. Teleports are borked. Inventories are borked. How long before many close up shop? Would it even make a difference? Some poor sap would take your place until they reached their limit. I am sorry, I rarely log on these days..except to answer IM’s. My World..My Imagination? I can assure you..I can imagine a lot nicer place to be right now. GAWD I hate to bitch, but I really dont know how much more I can take. I have invested heavily in SL, at considerable expense of my time and real life. I feel like the “Tidy-Bowl Man” right now…waiting for someone to pull the chain *shrug*

  89. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    Well IMing someone to get LM would be great..but you cant find THEM under search to do the IM’s 😦
    Unless they are already on your friends list.

    Oh and the suggestion to go to a free acct? Well I would love that if I could TRANSFER all my over 9k inventory items. Which I CANT.

    This is what this page is for. To voice our concerns. We are frustrated YES! But I havent seen anyone be abusive here. So let us RANT.

    There is no way n heck that this would be allowed in a RW business. There would absolutely be NO CUSTOMERS! Its just that we are all addicted ! LMAO!

    *did I just laugh?* hahaha

  90. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    @Arianna

    Well said!

  91. Beebee says:

    I don’t know if this has been posted yet or not, but no matter what I type in on Search at the Places tab the only thing that comes up is Amsterdam. Any wonder why the top place in Popular Places is Amsterdam? How is that fair to the other places competing? Seems like an all-or-nothing should be used here. And yes, I have access to landmarks at places I’ve already been to, but to find new places to shop is entirely too much work the way it is now.

  92. Precursor Pooraka says:

    @Arianna Oranos: Thanks for commenting on my suggestion 🙂 I just wanted to say I’ve read yours and *totally* agree with what you’re saying too!

    At the moment, there is *NO* accountability – and there needs to be. The problem is as much “social” as it is technological, and *both* areas need to be addressed – the answer does not lie with one or the both, but BOTH! Technology cannot solve “social” problems alone (neither will TOS rules/regulations that are difficult to enforce, and easy to sidestep).

    I agree that a 30 day free trial is a good idea, and people should be accountable for their inworld avatar and behaviour. If after 30 days they no longer with to stay, then fine, otherwise they can upgrade.

    Lastly, an additional few ideas….. (hope you are listening to all these ideas from people Lindens :-P)… maybe free users should;

    1. Have an “inventory limit” of say 500-1000 items
    2. Only rez objects in public sandboxes
    3. Have limited scripting capability

    Now wouldn’t that stop a lot of trouble from disruptive people and griefers?

    In addition to my earlier suggestion of;

    4. “Why not limit the grid numbers to a set level for the time being, until additional work/hardware/etc can be done?”
    5. “Give older members a priority for logging in, therefore in the short term the grid becomes more stable until works to rectify can be carried out.”
    6. (as someone else said) Limit search results returned to 25 initially, with the user able to request more if needed. Maybe free users *only* get the top 10 results? Paids get top 25, with the option for more?

    None of the above 6 points will “hurt” any of the free users, and still allow them a decent inworld experience, whilst protecting the paying residents, and hopefully reducing load on sims, databases and the grid as a whole.

    I think some really good suggestions are coming out of this people — lets make sure they get heard and maybe we can get the grid backup to speed 🙂

    As I understand it, the Lindens will be trawling this page and stripping out questions and suggestions and then provide answers at the town hall meeting. Which is an excellent idea and shows that they are prepared to listen to the grid residents 🙂

  93. If the Web Tab browser was made to handle secure logins then people would be able to access their land and group land web pages from their Web Tab.

  94. I’m not sure what the problem is of deleting accounts that havent logged in for six months – especially if they are sent an email warning them and then given a month after that to log in.

    I don’t expect there are very many players who haven’t logged in for six months or more that could really be considered an ‘active part of the community’ by any stretch of the imagination.

    Broccoli

  95. Pingback: MMODump.com » Issues updates

  96. mysecondlife says:

    Has anyone actually come out at Linden Lab and said that this is not unacceptable anymore? Someone at Linden Lab may consider forcefully reminding everyone there that the severe problems we are currently experiencing is not at all positive considering SL now includes some big named real world companies.

    I had considered bringing Kaplan University in, using SLs platform for meetings between Professors and Students, but I am unwilling to do so with the severe issues currently on the table. In my mind, for over one year, the minor glitches with updates where manageable; now they are taking away from the platform’s potential and have moved SL over to a ‘sometimes it works game’. i.e. Linden Lab cannot afford this type of problem anymore nor can it afford to have it unresolved for over a week.

    Dr Boyoma
    aka A. Turner, PhD

  97. mysecondlife says:

    Correction:

    So much for me and my PhD …. it should have read “Has anyone actually come out at Linden Lab and said that this is not acceptable anymore?”

    Dr Boyoma
    aka A. Turner, PhD

  98. Carmilla Mirabeau says:

    YAY! People Search is UP!! *dances a jig* Make sure you click the ONLINE tab off! Only shows online..etc.

    Woohooo! Hafta get my shopping addiction attended too!

  99. Peekay Semyorka says:

    There are, of course, some technical issues with deleting old (inactive) accounts.

    For example, suppose the account holder had created objects (such as a piece of furniture) and then sold them to other users. If the old account is deleted, then suddenly we have many objects without creators.

    Suppose the account holder had rezzed objects on group land where he was a member. Deleting the account would result in objects without owners, and the group structure suddenly changes.

    Suppose the account holder is named in a vendor script which gives him/her sales commissions from an account. Such account may now be out of balance.

    If the holder had done business with other (still active) accounts, history of monetary transactions between them could be lost or rendered incomplete.

    Suppose the account holder is listed in a “friend’s list” of an active account.

    Etc.

    These types of issues are not insurmountable, but require much thought, testing, etc. In general, physical data deletion of any kind is “risky” because if there are ANY bugs then bad things can happen (i.e., suppose active accounts get accidentally deleted due to a bug.)

    Often, leaving dormant data alone is more preferable than the risk of deleting the wrong operational data. At some point, though, inactive data should be archived.

    -Peekay

    ps. I recently architected a financial archiving component for a major RL bank, so my perspective might be affected somewhat by that experience.

  100. Lenneth Hannya says:

    Ok, time I get my two cents in here.. and this time I’m actualy backing LL..
    You people gotta realize that these people at Linden Labs arn’t just there all crunching the numbers and such, everyone has a place they are best at and knowing them they are giveing their best to help us thru this.. I am getting hurt on this too as I am a shop owner and am a paying Premium account too But… GIVE THEM A BREAK ON IT!! telling them to work harder when they allready give us the best they can is not how to get things worked out.. it just gets it rushed and gets us stuck with problems like this again. But I will say that Live Help isn’t much help unless a Linden is watching it. But atleast its there.

  101. poppet mcgimsie says:

    So, search classified suddenly works like it used to again?! Now a keyword search will return all results that have the keyword in title or description (rather than just the first word of the title), and during the night the teleport numbers were all reset to zero. Wondering if anyone has any insight about this before I once again redo my ads strategy.

  102. Joachim Karlfeldt says:

    WORST. UPDATE. EVER.

  103. Zonax Delorean says:

    @Lenneth:
    ‘telling them to work harder when they allready give us the best they can’

    If they are ALREADY giving us the BEST they can, we’re in deep sh*** trouble!

  104. Arianna Oranos says:

    Lenneth, I believe that the Lindens as a programming team are having even bigger problems with all the load caused by the unverified account option. In earlier times, there were *NO* unverifieds. LL’s top brass came up with this idea about six months ago, greatly degrading – according to many oldtimers – the whole SL experience.

    When you have a system that can handle X users online and Y inventory items, forcing it to handle 2X users and 50Y items is going to wreak havoc, no matter how hard your personnel tries. I would be greatly surprised to hear that Philip Rosedale actually consulted with the programming and security teams before allowing unverified accounts and setting the “1 million accounts” goal. True, the Linden programmers and techs are doing the best they can. But the company’s decisions are *not* helping them – or us.

  105. Solar Legion says:

    Surry Precurser but that’s bull.

    When you wake up and realize that some of your own people use free accounts as alternates perhaps then you won’t be so quick to suggest such things.

    Maybe when you wake up and realize that the people on free accounts WILL be hurt in their ability to enjoy Second Life if Linden Lab implements any of the suggestions made by anyone here (except perhaps coming up with new ways of verification) then perhaps you wouldn’t be so quick to suggest such things.

    30-day trials, then being forced to upgrade? Sure. YOU pay their account premiums and they’ll jump at it. Give them something more useful than the ability to own land (or go beyond any imposed limitations to their accounts), like say I don’t know …. well what do you know – as of right now there really isn’t anything useful you could offer them now is there? Didn’t think so.

    If you’re going to suggest alterations to the system, then suggest them for your own account level only, as they will only affect you.

    Just so you know, I have a few friends that are scripters, it’s how they earn their Linden Dollars. They do not have Premium accounts. Limiting scripting would kill their business. Free Account Builders would be axed by inventory limiting. everyone suffers if log-ins become some social song and dance.

    Please try and keep yourselves in reality and not in the little dream world where you are the only thing that matters.

  106. StevenSDF Fisher says:

    I wouldn’t delete inactive accounts, but move them to another DB, as long as they’re out of the main DB, it should be ok IMO.

    Then have a page on the website somewhere so you can get your account reactivated.

  107. Fledhyris Proudhon says:

    I am copying you all in to the email I just sent to support. I’m at the end of my tether.

    Guys, this is unacceptable 😦

    I can live with the bugs, I can live with the database going down for maintenance.

    But now I am crashing constantly and I can’t teleport anywhere.

    It is NOT my computer, it is Second Life. And it’s not just me either. Whatever you did in last week’s update – or whatever you’ve been doing to try and fix that – has SEVERELY compromised grid integrity. I am sure you know this. But it’s getting beyond a joke. When there are work-arounds and I can still function in SL, it’s all well and good, but now there isn’t even any point me being there, because I can’t go anywhere and I can’t talk to anyone for more than five minutes.

    Grey goo attacks? Don’t make me laugh, griefers have NEVER caused the kind of disruption that your UPDATE has caused, even when they force the grid offline!

    I try to stay positive, I really do, but this is just making me slam my head against the desk in frustration. And I am quite sure I am not the only resident who feels this way.

    Cutting edge of technology? Second Life is the internet of the future? I fear for our future if that’s the case. If this is really at such an experimental and buggy stage of development then why the DICKENS did you open it up to the entire world?! Games don’t go online to the whole world until they’ve been thoroughly beta tested, but SL behaves as though it hasn’t even made it through alpha testing! Your 2million residents are just a bunch of very unhappy guinea pigs being asked to pay for something that doesn’t work and doesn’t live up to its promises. We feel cheated.

    Please, please, PLEASE do something about this, for the love of sanity >.

  108. I’m sure I’m not alone in wondering whether the problems are connected with libsl and “Copybot”… after all, when Linden Lab are testing new features they have a separate test grid that, if all goes belly up, doesn’t matter as it can be easily restored – yet Copybot and other “open source” projects go straight to the live main grid, don’t they?

    One ‘strange database entry’ created by an external, unknown viewer could seriously screw up the database from that point onwards…

    Broccoli

  109. Fledhyris Proudhon says:

    Additional note:

    I am one of the fiercest supporters of free accounts but I have to say, I’m with Arianna 100%. The current situation is ridiculous and I can’t see it being fixed until numbers are limited, accountability is introduced, and everyone does *something* to support the costs. That doesn’t necessarily mean subscribing, or even buying Lindens – I have free account friends who create and sell items, all of which gets the economy going, and they are darn good builders and scripters – but you are right about the load from unverified, non-dedicated users. In the future, this may be a goal for SL to aim for, but right now, it’s just harming the whole platform.

    **SL does not have the staffing or infrastructure to support a free global population.** It is as simple as that.

    Also, to whomever said that only 10-15% accounts were inactive, that’s bs. Look at the statistics on the login page – returning users over the past 2 months account for only FORTY percent of all accounts. OK maybe some of those folks intend to return, but I’m betting a sizeable number of that MIA 60% have given up and gone elsewhere for their fun. Clearing out even half those accounts would help the database load enormously. Anyone who has a premium account *is still paying* so there’s no need to delete their accounts however idle they are, just the dormant non-paying ones. I’d fully support that decision, particularly if you could just shift the accounts to an offline database for backup purposes, so that nothing is irredeemably lost.

  110. Arianna Oranos says:

    SL needs to be re-engineered so that CopyBot will not be usable with it again.

  111. CP costello says:

    I have NOT recieved my group money in two days this is a serious crutch to my land bisness i have emailed twice now. is this a known problem?

  112. Precursor Pooraka says:

    @ Broccoli Curry + StevenSDF Fisher: Both good suggestions, that will help matters a bit but it’s not the size of the database that’s causing it, but the load due to the requests to/from the database.

    As inactive accounts are not causing any load it doesn’t really apply. It would help from a less cluttered database point of view though 🙂 But I would think that LL would want to keep these for “statistical” and “marketing” purposes… as in… “Look how many subsribers we have” – which is fine as they’re not really causing any load issues.

    Arianna correctly states that the infrastructure can only handle x users and y inventory items (plus other protocol related load, rezzing, etc), then the goal is clear….. spend the monies to increase infrastructure to support more users (which may already be in progress), modify the existing protocol to be more efficient and reduce user load as we’ve mentioned before.

    The developers cannot be expected to achieve this with protocol/software changes alone, they need additional resource/hardware and a management decision regarding unverified accounts.

    Obviously LL are working on the protocol, dbs, infrastructure but this takes time….. and time is what is in short supply (ppl are reaching breaking point).

    In order to achieve those goals of a modded protocol and bigger infrastructure whilst keeping SL running, they must first *surely* have to address some of the points (providing they are sane and make sense) in my last posts, and the other good suggestions that have been put forward by other people in this thread.

    It’s a three pronged attack that will succeed, just one or two is doomed to failure I would think – which is bad news for everyone 😦

    LL of course doesn’t want to shut down access for free accounts, but as mentioned above, they need some limits imposing on them. As Arianna also states, it’s probably the paid up users that spend/generate the majority of the revenue.

    Come on LL, you know it makes sense 🙂 “select count(*) from users where paid = `true`” users can’t be wrong – can they? 🙂

  113. Gulabau Vale says:

    Hope you’re learning…..

    We all know your server capacity is insufficient. We don’t understand why you won’t buy more server power. But we do know you are working hard to amke what you’ve got more effective and efficient.

    I hope that, as you struggle, the things you learn about managing the game are not simply vanishing every time a problem is solved. I hope that your staff meetings have time for reflection as well as crisis management. I hope you are keeping orderly records of your decisions and their consequences, so that when you do buy more server space you can run the game with great efficiency and introduce new elements and wonderful tools, without these same old bugs and glitches reappearing.

    I don’t ask to hear that you are going to solve all the problemes soon. I do very much want to hear that you are learning, preserving what you learn, and taking your lessons seriously. Please tell me that this is happening.

  114. The problem with limiting free accounts TOO much is that it will become no fun to be a free account… and people will stop playing the game before they get hooked. I think the current limitations (which mostly consist of not allowing unpaid accounts own land) are plenty stringent enough.

  115. Precursor Pooraka says:

    Likewise…. I’m not saying “Burn the freebies”, but more along the lines of “Enforce (stricter) rules upon the freebies”…. pretty much what everyone else has said.

    So LL (most likely the beleaguered but redoubtable Torley *smiles), if you’re reading this, the nutshell people have suggested for free users is:

    1. Have an “inventory limit” of say 500-1000 items

    2. Only rez objects in public sandboxes

    3. Have limited scripting capability

    4. Limit the grid numbers (for free users) to a set level for the time being, until additional work/hardware/etc can be done?”

    5. Give older members a priority for logging in, therefore in the short term the grid becomes more stable until works to rectify can be carried out.

    6. Limit search results returned to 25 initially, with the user able to request more if needed. Maybe free users *only* get the top 10 results? Paids get top 25, with the option for more?

    7. More accountability for free users – /quote:Arianna:”It is far easier to take effective disciplinary measures against a verified user who violates the TOS than it will ever be with an unverified. We know it full well: ban an unverified griefer, he’ll come back within minutes. Ban a verified user, and you won’t see him/her again for as long as the ban lasts.”

    8. /quote:Arianna:”Combining ID verification with AGE verification greatly reduces the risk of SL being accused of doing nothing to prevent children from working in the virtual sex industry.”

    If anyone else has suggestions, write them down…. Like I say, I believe the Lindens will be looking here for info and will respond at the town hall – and these are (from what i can see) pretty sensible suggestions and not mad ravings of deranged SL residents.

    So LL techies…. storm the management offices and present the ideas of the residents, on behalf of the residents, to those in the ivory towers – we’re all with you 🙂

  116. CP costello says:

    I am not a computer tech by any means but would’nt it make sence to go back to the prior version before the updates ???????This is Obviously very serious and out of control ..shut it down …reset it to previous version fix the flaws *smirks*

  117. Precursor Pooraka says:

    @Timothy Zapotocky: Even with what I’ve just suggested, it would allow “all the fun of the fair” for free users, but without allowing them to bring the grid down – giving them more than enough opportunity to get hooked 🙂

    Then if they want to upgrade, they can. In the meantime they are free (with a few limitations, which is more than fair) to live their SL…. I mean what use is the grid if it’s down for everyone?

    I too am a great believer in free accounts, and they don’t need to be stopped, just limited in capability a bit. At present it’s only the land ownership which makes them differ.

    Another suggestion: Lastly, maybe only have X new signups for free accounts per day…. others are placed in a queue and will get their account in Y days, or have the option to pay there and then and join as a premium right away… This way new membership can be “staggered” in order to give LL and the grid time to expand 🙂

  118. Arianna Oranos says:

    Half of the free accounts I’ve known wouldn’t be much of a loss if they stopped playing altogether… Interrupting classes at the Academy of Second Learning and asking if someone wants sex certainly does NOT endear me, or anyone else for that matter, to the concept of the unverified account.

    Also note that a free account does not have to mean “unverified”.

    There are some “arguments” I’ve gotten sick of reading:

    1. “I can’t afford anything but an unverified account”. Oh really? Then how were you able to afford a decent computer (the purchase of which usually requires an above average income) and a broadband connection? Furthermore, you can enter your data and become verified *without* being charged a penny.

    2. “My country doesn’t have credit cards or paypal”. Hmmm… Visa.com and other credit/debit card providers say otherwise. While it may not always be easy to have a full-fledged credit card, you can perfectly well use an ATM/debit card (such as the Visa Electron) for verification purposes.

    3. “I don’t trust LL with my data, there was a fiasco in September”. Yahoo! is far worse than LL (I’ve seen a multitude of identity theft occurencies in there), yet people have no problem trusting it. Have you failed to notice that the pages concerning your account in SL are secure (https)?

    4. “I have kids, I don’t want some sicko to come after me”. That’s NOT a valid argument. If you avoid giving out your 1st Life info to strangers here on SL, you have absolutely no worries whatsoever.

    So, there is no excuse at all for someone to be unverified. Furthermore, the price of the subscription is actually quite low. The quarterly pay scheme I’m on is not the most cost-effective in the long run, but still, $22something every three months is far from threatening to my livelihood. Mind you, I hail from Greece, where the average monthly salary is approx. 60% that of the European Union average – and even lower compared to the average US monthly income. So yes, I’m a paid account, fully verified, I come from a country with lousy salaries and have no problem paying for my subscription. I merely stopped buying two stupid magazines I used to buy – and also did the environment a favor by not rewarding (financially) the publishers of those magazines which are nothing but a waste of trees, ink and electricity.

  119. Thanks for doing a good job under circumstances you couldn’t pay me to endure.

  120. ROCK says:

    The one that all are F E A R of speaking is that SL should just be used for who PAYS.

    If that be made, ALL BUGS will disappear as MAGIC. 🙂

  121. Victoria Dahlstrom says:

    While I am very disappointed that Search>Places has been down for so long, I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for keeping us updated so well on what’s going on. Many websites leave their users in the dust about these things, which is very frustrating. Please continue to keep us updated, we all appreciate it very much!

  122. Bronwyn says:

    ALRIGHT ALRIGHT ALREADY!!! I have read through all of these blogs and I have to say that everyone is in one way or another very sick of how things are right now on SL. Me, myself, I have two accounts on SL and BOTH!!!!!! are not working very well. So, whether you are OLD or NEW, you are gonna have problems. Soooo, I don’t see how getting rid of all the NEWBIES is gonna help. Technically, they still pay in one way or another. They are good for SL in one way or another. And, who knows, somewhere down the line they may end up UPGRADING THEIR ACCOUNT. Just like most of us did in the beginning. We tried it out and then, if we liked it. WE UPGRADED!!! Maybe what we all need to do is TAKE A BREATH and see if the LINDENS can fix the problems!!! I am not saying that I, personally, haven’t sat at my computer lately and not cussed out SL for not working right. But, COME ON people. SH** HAPPENS!!. Whether it’s in SL or RL. We somehow muck through things in RL. Now, all we have to do is muck through the things in SL. No matter how BIG or SMALL they may be. This is my opinion on things and if you don’t like it, oh well. I am not trying to be a bigger person, just putting my two cents in that’s all.

  123. Angelo Walcott says:

    @Beebee

    >>>I don’t know if this has been posted yet or not, but no matter what I type in on Search at the Places tab the only thing that comes up is Amsterdam. Any wonder why the top place in Popular Places is Amsterdam? How is that fair to the other places competing? Seems like an all-or-nothing should be used here. And yes, I have access to landmarks at places I’ve already been to, but to find new places to shop is entirely too much work the way it is now.

    Yes, I said it, and in my opinion is a total shame. SL actually looks like a banana republic (the country I come from, for example) where the bigger (involuntarily in this case, at least I really really hope) capitalize on the disfunctional establishment to erase all competition. BUT NOBODY SEEMS TO CARE. The next liberal claim I read about sl being all about freedom, creativity and free expression I swear I vomit.

  124. Fledhyris Proudhon says:

    @Precursor Pooraka

    I like all your points for limitations on free accounts. They would not have stopped me from getting hooked to SL when I was a free resident, they would just have spurred me to getting my account that much quicker. And apart from the point I’m about to make, these restrictions would not stop me from enjoying the use of my free alt account, either.

    One point though. Limiting inventory is fine for newbies but what about established accounts, where players have probably already amassed well over 1000 items? You really can’t go about deleting inventory content ad hoc just because someone can’t subscribe. Maybe you could stop them from getting any more items until inventory is whittled down to a manageable level..?

    Actually that could work for *any* residents – I know I have a huge inventory, well managed but I’m sure it still causes load on the database every time I open it up. I wouldn’t mind somehow archiving a lot of my stuff, although I would need immediate access to all of it – I never know when I’ll want a particular item even though at any point in time I’ll only be using a tiny fraction of my hoard. It seems to me that we could do with a kind of linked inventory system, where only a request for a particular item runs a search on the main DB – the rest of the contents are just static names in a directory. (Apologies if that makes no sense, I’m no programmer.)

  125. Joachim Karlfeldt says:

    I think some people are mistaking the problem somewhat. I don’t think the problem is with FREE accounts per se, but rather UNVERIFIED accounts. I know lots of people who have free accounts and lead very productive Second Lives. There is no reason to not be able to have a verified free account, meaning if you’re going to grief, we know who to go after. Verification can take the form of verified phone number, credit card (unbilled), etc…

    With a verification system it would be possible to limit the number of characters a person could have, I see no reason for a person to have more than 3, maybe someone else can come up with one.

    As far as too many items in a persons inventory, it should be limited to how many items a person has named ‘OBJECT’. If you care enough about an item to actually name it, you may need it, if you don’t, you probably don’t need it.

  126. Precursor Pooraka says:

    @Bronwyn: I agree with what you are saying, and ppl do need to “muddle on through”, but in order to do the muddling and the throughing load on the grid does have to be eased, and some measures of some sort need to be taken.

    @Fledhyris Proudhon: Thanks for understanding a point of view, and not jumping on the “you’re a freebie basher” wagon, because that is not my intention. I was free once too, until I got hooked 🙂 Likewise, none of these suggestions would stop me from experiencing SL or enjoying it.

    @Joachim Karlfeldt: Agreed and understand it’s unverified accounts.

    I’m not “freebie bashing”, honestly I’m not. People have said my proposed measures wouldn’t limit the fun/enjoyment/experience of SL, but would probably ease the load. What I’m trying to say it’s they’re all linked, and it’s vicious circle that needs to be broken (even if temporarily) in order for LL to re-deploy, sort things out and recover.

    The alternative seems to be to let matters get worse, or take the grid down for a few weeks whilst it is totally overhauled – neither would be ideal in SL or RL. Anyway it’s looked at there seems to be a pressure value that needs to be released so to speak.

    Chin up folks 🙂

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