About a month ago I posted here asking for ideas for improving Customer Service. There was tremendous response and it’s very clear that we have a lot of work to do.
What follows is a summary of your comments, along with ideas for how we plan to go forward. Before this is implemented, however, we’d like to get your feedback to these plans in a series of meetings. Our plans are to schedule a series of five meetings, with 20 residents in each, in December. We’ll schedule these meetings at different times in Second Life so everyone can participate. If you’d like to attend a meeting, please IM me (Robin Linden) in-world. Let me know the best time for you to meet and we’ll try to schedule the groups to accommodate as many of you as would like to participate.
Problems and Potential Solutions
- Staffing versus Systems
We have two issues to address under this heading. One is that we need more staff, since the growth of Second Life has required additional folks to ensure we can manage the sheer volume of activity. We are looking for people to join the concierge team, for a Knowledge Base editor, a Tech Support Manager, and for liaisons (especially those who are bilingual).
On the systems side we have made some significant changes to our phone system already, and have added staff to take calls. We have also reconfigured the international lines so they ring into our main support call center, reducing the number of lost calls. In addition we are evaluating 3rd party software which will enable us to integrate the Knowledge Base, the email ticket system and a live chat option.
- Time to Resolution
Right now it’s our goal to respond to an email sent to support within 24 hours. It sometimes takes us longer to completely resolve a problem, and there have certainly also been instances when it has actually taken longer just to respond.
We’ll post the expected turnaround time for a response, provide stats on actual performance, and most critically create a place where you will be able check the status of any tickets you have in the queue.
- Live Help and Training
Several of you mentioned training for Live Helpers. A big challenge we have right now is that the Live Help team is a volunteer organization. Originally conceived as a way for volunteers to help newcomers with questions about the tools, it has become the first place everyone looks for in-world support for every sort of problem. We think, however, that it’s unreasonable to think that volunteers should be the first line of support.
Our plan is to 1) restructure the liaison team (more below) and 2) vastly improve the quality and organization of the Knowledge Base to provide basic information, and 3) implement a ticket and queue system for the more complex questions that come into the Live Help channel. Those tickets will be prioritized and managed by the liaison team with help from Resident volunteers.
- Liaisons with Specializations
The liaison team is being divided up into several teams with specialized focus. It will consist of small teams supporting concierge, the volunteers, and tech support. In addition, it will be their responsibility to manage Residents who are choosing to be trouble-makers. They will continue to be available 24/7.
Which leads me to…
- the difference between griefing, dispute resolution, system performance, and technical problems
Many of the complaints raised about customer service discussed a variety of problems, some of which we can resolve through customer service and some of which are beyond our control.
We will be dividing the support team into two groups, one to focus on support services, and one to focus on governance issues. The first group will be responsible for questions and issues relating to land, group, technical and billing. The second group will be responsible for dealing with Community Standards and Terms of Service violations, griefing, as well as the development of local controls across both the island estates and the mainland.
System performance is something the engineering team is working on non-stop! Customer Service will be able to let you know if your technical problem results from a wider, known problem and, of course, help you resolve individual problems related to your system configuration.
- Support Channels
As you know, we currently offer complete access to the Knowledge Base, email support, phone support, and in-world help (F1 and Live Help). In our effort to provide everyone with support, we are falling short of providing satisfactory support 100% of the time, our goal.
To provide service levels consistent with expectations we propose 1) revamping the channels of support and 2) changing the priority of support based on account type. What this means is that we will improve the Knowledge Base and restructure in-world support as mentioned above. In addition we will add a live chat channel through our website. Depending on the type of account you have (basic, premium, concierge) you will have unlimited access to the Knowledge Base and email support, but limited access to live chat and phone support. We are currently still considering whether it is preferred to make live chat and phone support available to those who aren’t eligible for an additional fee per use.
Official Second Life Blog 
WOW this is going to be some change!
Hooray! Thanks for coming up with a plan and outlining it. The old system simply won’t scale given the major societal changes we’ve seen in the past year. Any ETA on when the transition will happen?
When as soon as the report it here. Its worth the wait for these changes and I dont want to rush them. Let them do their thig! and All wil be great! Rushing solves nothing.
Will the changes to land use also include better management not only of preventing griefers from say droping a nuke on someone’s land and pushing there clients out? AND maybe something to make regulating what guns etc can do better?
5 weeks ago, the # of accounts hit 1 million. Now its 1.6 million. What will it be 3 weeks from now? Can you handle it? How about putting a pause on new accounts, that is, only allow so many to be added per day? The latecomers will have to wait till the following day. People not really serious about living in world wont come back, those who are will. When i look around now anywhere in the world, there are three more people around me than a month ago. In a month it will be 6, another month it will be 12…. seriously, hold onto your horses. More addictions developed daily lol.
I would be supportive of a limit on who logged in each day until you catch up your # of employees and your bandwidth, just to prevent crashes. We cant risk what weve already built.
i think you lindens are doing a fabulous job consering what you are dealing with. I will send my suggestions, but just so you know, thanks for everything.
great news!
one thought, if you Limited new Secondlife accounts to perhaps 5 for Each IP address, you could potentialy stop mass ammounts of alternate accounts filling up the resource servers and reduce server latency issues
This is great.
Could you make sure to schedule at least one and preferably two of these meetings for overseas based residents. For example, meetings in the European and Australian time zones would be very helpful.
It’s nice that you are restructuring the customer service for better effiency. Here is a suggestion for you. If the griefers are members, ban them even if they are Lindens or friends of Lindens. If someone hacks the client, ban them. If they are Lindens, fire them. The idea that people who work for the Linden Labs can get away with hacking the client, griefing, etc. just because they “know someone” is totally ridiculous. It is also allowing people who work for the company to which WE are paying membership fees to ruin the experience we are paying for. And that is just about the stupidest business policy I have ever heard of!! If you want to be successful and keep members happy, don’t allow your own people to screw up the client!!! Remember, without a happy membership, you won’t have anything to attract all those corporations whose business you are apparently salivating over. And if SL isn’t running well, then the corporations won’t be doing any business here since no one will be able to get to their sites. And please, make the basic a trial period, not an ongoing membership. $10 a month is not a lot to pay for SL, and I am getting tired of subsidizing the play of people who don’t see why they should pay to play. I love being in SL, but I get tired of all the problems and the attidude of the Lindens towards the people that pay their salaries. If they were politicians, they would be out of a job. And since SL is a people-oriented business, much more so than most businesses, the Lindens should listen as if they were politicians. Or they are going to be in SL with the corporations and the basics.
Great to see improvement happening. It is such a relief. I am really going to think of this and see if I feel I can add anything at a meeting. Looks like things are moving in the right direction.
Sounds excellent, particularly improving the knowlege base.
How about adding some real search capabilites, the current search is pretty rudimentary. After all, the more people can find out for themselves the better.
Also, PLEASE implement a real bug tracking system developers can see. I know I’ve reported several bugs which later turned out to be known. It’s both a waste of time for us to pursue them and for your techs to figure out if it’s a repeat. Obviously, don’t make exploit bugs visible!
Thanks for addressing this, customer service has been a huge problem, i.e. it’s in terrible shape currently.
“We think, however, that it’s unreasonable to think that volunteers should be the first line of support.”
Then why do you let your liasons put in their profiles “If you have a question, don’t IM me, contact live help”. There’s a reason Live Help became the front line, it’s because liasons don’t want to deal with actual customer requests unless it’s filtered through live help first.
I’m not anti free account because it took a good two weeks before i was addicted. You would lose on slow adopters if you eliminated free accounts.
Any Customer Service will be an improvement. You cannot get any lower than where you’re at now, which is ZERO.
The adage “If you build it, they will come,” only goes so far. The corollary is, “If you screw it up, they will leave.”
Cheers!
Hurray!…Finally!!
I cannot tell you how many times I have written emails to LL asking for support help, only to receive the automatic response, and nothing more. I have even tried phone calls, and since I live in Hawaii, that means even trying at 4 or 5 AM trying to get through and only getting a voice mail. So I leave, in vain, a voice mail to somebodies “voice mail box” and never, and I mean never, get a response back! I do all this, why? Because I was told in Live Help to contact LL directly. Usually, Live Help can help me, sometimes not. When they could help I was so greatful, when they couldn’t, it was disheartening. But, still I try, hoping it will improve. So, maybe now, when this is implemented, it will. I hope so. I have high hopes for SL and all of the people who work so hard to make this fun and addictive place to be!
So, a BIG Mahalo nui loa, for listening to us poor “working stiffs” who rarely complain here, and try to support what you are trying to do.
I’m glad to see that LL is serious about improving customer service. I haven’t needed it yet but where I DO see the need for improvement is in grid/sim stability. Having had my head in the sand, I’d never heard of SL until a week ago when I ran across a reference to it on Slashdot. I checked it out and was hooked (and went Premium the second day)!
However, of the 7 days I’ve been on, on 4 of those days there were problems with the grid or sims that made things ALMOST unbearable. While I realize that SL is experience tremendous growth, that kind of down time isn’t good business.
changing the priority of support based on account type. What this means is that we will improve the Knowledge Base and restructure in-world support as mentioned above. In addition we will add a live chat channel through our website. Depending on the type of account you have (basic, premium, concierge) you will have unlimited access to the Knowledge Base and email support, but limited access to live chat and phone support.
I’m just agog.
I also feel a hiatus should be taken on free accounts until some catching up to handle the load has taken place. I also stand by he fact that the large welcome areas need someone there on a more constant basis to keep order.
I have never ever experienced any problems with support, but I guess others have, so I applaud your new plans. Support even gave me advice on buying a new computer that would run SL better.
My only other comment is not to restrict support options to basic and “unverified” users. If anyone is in their right mind they will give Second Life a free trial before they pay the big bucks.
What “big bucks”???
$72/yr is $6/month. That most CERTAINLY not “big bucks”!!
A free trial yes. But a free trial for a week. Not 6 months to a year or more!
That’s not a free trial. That’s a free-load
Concierge help must be staffed 24/7 and sim owners need to be able to contact a live human being who can assist with sim outages and restarts.
For two weekends now my sim has crashed at crucial times when I’ve been trying to hold in world meetings. Both concierge phone lines listed in sim owner documentation are inactive, it was a weekend so the main help line was unstaffed, live help IM’s would not go through because of server load, and neither would group IM’s. I was left with a concierge email that seems to be only answered by an automatic responder (I never received a human response from last weekend’s email inquiry).
This help must also live on a separate server, since we all know the sl server is unreachable at crucial grid times.
Would this include instant support for anti-griefing for paying members?
I have an Associate’s Degree in Network Security, and am currently working towards
my BS. That’s the easy part. Finding a job to build up experience is nearly impossible. I need to work with networks. I (and many others I’m sure) would jump
at the chance to do meaningful work, for free or otherwise, with a complex evolving entity such as yours in exchange for employment credit. Helpdesk in the
IT world is a negative- the longer you stay, the more you are considered unable
to do ‘real’ work like firewall, routing, IP addressing, Subnetting,VLan,ACL, etc-
the daily meat-and-potatoes of the IT world. I have done an internship
with my University, and that gets a yessss… from employers, as in “yes and what else”. It’s ridiculous that you have someone with a critical need, and someone
else who wants to fill that need, and are unable to bridge that gap.
I’m very happy to read that LL is listening to the userbase, understanding that there are issues and making a plan to address those issues. !kudos!
well time will tell soon……….
Have you ever considered utilizing a 3rd party support team who are contract, based on the busiest hours you require? There are companies that are very worthy of this task and perhaps you should investigate – one such company is http://www.contractxchange.com/ who offer LIVE web or phone operators at low cost. The companies use remote, work-at-home operators that provide excellent customer service, based on the training they receive from you. I’m not affiliated by any means to their company, but have seen their job postings. It’s a low-cost solution to your customer service problem. Perhaps Linden Labs can simply incorporate this type of service and hire their residents on a part-time basis? Sign me up! Cheers, Pasing_Wind.
This is very good news in my opinion. I’m very excited about the possibility of live chat and email correspondence. I truely hope this works out in a positive light for LL. I worked for a large American Insurance Company for many years corresponding with our customers via email and live chat addressing problems, answering questions, and making requested changes to insurance policies. For this reason, I actually prefer to handle all my business this way. I wish more companies would see how valuable email and live chat can be for business. Please consider the importance of refraining from automated email responses. I understand you are most likely flooded with emails and it is impossible to have a respectable turn around time at the moment without automation. However, it is very possible to respond in a professional and efficient manner, and still be personable with your response. The best thing is that email correspondence and live chat will help alleviate your call volumes. Thank you LL.
The point behind free accounts, I believe, is that SL is meant to be like a 3D WWW, but better. You don’t HAVE to subscribe to an ISP (where LindenLabs is now), and certainly not to ICANN (where I assume they are aiming to be one day) to access a web page on their sites, and LindenLabs has made a MORAL decision to make SL the same. By MORAL decision I do not necessarily mean RIGHT decision, just a decision based on some morality, whether it be a right, wrong, forward-thinking or laughably naive morality. Personally I see where that are coming from and agree with the general idea.
On the other hand, I also understand the frustration paying customers have with the perception (I have not seen any real proof, but it may be a justified perception — or not) that the free accounts are freeloading and sucking up resources beyond their benefit.
I think the idea of allowing free accounts but with the bare minimum of support is a good step in keeping the system testable by interested parties not ready to commit (like I was a number of months ago) while not sinking paying-users’s resources into them. System access might be free, but all but the most basic support should not be — if I access the web free from the local library, I don’t expect OptusNet or some other ISP to provide free tech-support!
I would also suggest LindenLabs placing a reasonable limit in the number of prims that free accounts can attach to their AVs at once. By reasonable I mean: big enough to test a nice assortment of attachments out, but not big enough for crazy-hair et. al. It might help with one area I DO see a lot of performance issues from, and give another reason to upgrade to a full account. And by the time they get to a full account they might have learned moderation — I have long since teired up from my firstland, but still am paranoid about “if one prim will do, use one prim”. 😉
First, do not allow the Governance Team to be an excuse to weave in “resmod” type “volunteers” that you select or screen that have power over other residents to resolve disputes, even “sort” disputes. This will rightly meet with great resistance. Please do not slip it in — we’ll be watching.
Second, you need to decide if you can get over three ideological humps to reduce your own workload:
o Guns — either you decide that guns are illegal up and down the system, and you ban their creation and sale (which you’re unlikely to do) and stop every sort of advertising and promotion of them so you can cut 25 percent or more of your griefing trouble tickets. Many of us would like to see this! You really need to get over the belief that SL is a place where people should be encouraged to shoot, and shed the illusion that people are going to create viable shooting games. They shouldn’t be…and they won’t.
If you are not going to bite this bullet, so to speak, then first, make “NO PUSH” the default on every single parcel automatically through the check-offs. Make the tiny minority of people who want their land unsafe and push do the checking off of boxes rather than those who do NOT want shooting — that will eliminate a lot of griefing tickets.
Then corral the shooters more precisely into combat zones and even sandboxes — numerous police blotter complaints involve the eternal game of Linden Liaison vs. Sandbox Shooter. So the solution there is to make more weapons-oriented sandboxes and stop wasting time on this. Ditto the selling in sandboxes. Make a sellers’ sandbox and let people be free and police not these “quality of life” offenses but real troublemakers who really harm people’s second life like sexual harassers and stalkers and people who shoot in residential areas.
o PG
This is one of the greater fictions of SL. If you are going to merge the Teen Grid some day, then what would be the point of having PG riddled through SL where in any given PG zone, a teen could look over the county border to mature activity. So get rid of it. It’s used more as a way of one resident to grief another by nailing them for swearing in PG than it is genuinely protected. Most people do what they want in PG. If someone wants PG badly enough, I guess they’ll have to make and control their own community. But for the average PG sim, it’s pointless to expend scarce liaison time on policing this very fake concept in SL.
o Chat logging
Another big offense that Lindens over-police and people merely use to harass each other is the passing of notecard conversations. There are often very good reasons, such as the investigation of fraud, that people need to pass around conversations — a moratorium should be declared on this “offense” and free speech and citation of speech should be allowed, again, freeing up the clogged police blotter. Let residents who resent having their chat passed around figure out their own tools of banning and muting and consumer boycotting if they like. In a setting where people copy chat outside of LL jurisdiction on third-party sites anyway (an area where Ll shouldn’t overreach), it’s pointless to expend scarce time policing this non-violent offense.
“Depending on the type of account you have (basic, premium, concierge) you will have unlimited access to the Knowledge Base and email support, but limited access to live chat and phone support. We are currently still considering whether it is preferred to make live chat and phone support available to those who aren’t eligible for an additional fee per use.”
We already have the knowledge base, and email support, neither are new or effective in resolving problems quickly. Phone support is currently free and the best way to get a problem addressed promptly and effectively. Seems to me that limiting access to phone and live chat or charging for access is not an improvement to the customer service experience.
Problem with push restrictions is push is used for a lot more than weapons and greifing. There is presently no way to line an AV up with something they are not sitting on other than hitting them with a looped-and-adjusted series of micro-pushes to nudge them to where you want them to be (and they – the sort of pushes I use can be walked/flown strait out of – most people don’t even notice other than that they find it surprisingly easy to line themselves up with roof-hatches in fly-mode around my place).
On the other hand, if pushes were by default restricted to a level that would not allow mega-pushes but allow other more creative uses outside of guns and greifing, that might be a handy compromise.
Though I wasn’t aware of guns being a major source of greifing anyway – I must hang out in the wrong sims (and, I visit some pretty nasty ones in my travels through SL). I though object replication and ‘big physical cube of death’ was more what greifers used. Yes I have had a few noobs take pots at me. I scared them off with a show-force-field I made on my first day in a sandpit as a noob myself (on object/AV touch it flashes and says “ZZZzzzztt.” – nothing else 😉 Their leetle attachment scanners can’t work it out at all and they panic!).
i really hope that they dont make the free accounts trial only, especially for people like me who have had their account since 4/4/2006. i believe that getting rid of the free accounts would hurt the community as much as it would help it, but maybe you could try an auto delete on accounts that have been innactive for a couple months.
At least there’s a game plan in place now. It isnt easy to keep up with such a growth rate over a short period of time.
I’m sorry – what part of “not everyone can pay for second Life” didn’t the people complaining the most about free accounts understand?
I didn’t join Second Life so I could be FORCED later on to update to a premium account due to this sort of sheer idiocy. I’m not here to put money in people’s accounts (though I am trying to gather some lindens for a few purchases).
Nice one people ….. You may have just shot yourselves in the foot with some of this crap.
Prok, if you’re having so much trouble – leave. The only “guns” that are real problem weapons are orbiters (which can be scripted to run as a HUD by the way – so there goes THAT method of getting rid of them) and the ever annoying cager. Those are the only two that Griefers use. If you don’t believe me, go visit the Help Island or other places where people actually congregate.
PG issues? Hmm, sorry but your argument is negated by a simple truth: There are worse things out there for teenagers to come across than a mass of polygons in second Life engaged in bedroom activities.
As to everyone else touting limited CS access for free accounts or any account …. Sorry, some people have enough crap to deal with, without having to curse at an automated line that is not effective…. Or worse getting nothing but ‘fixes’ that don’t do what they are supposed to.
Yeah auto delete on inactive free accounts would be good, how many of that 1.6miliion actually play still? Also some people with free accounts are online for more hours than people that pay, if many free account people were forced to cough up a few bucks a month after 3 months then maybe Lindens could afford to employ more staff to look at issues free account people and others complain about.
Free accounts are also a great way to create a sockpuppet to grief someone too.
How well would this work if everyone went to free accounts?
To increase funding for the enhanced support, a sales tax on all goods sold from stores should be considered. This way, through paying a small amount of tax, even free accounts would help pitch in towards keeping it all going. There’s no free ride folks, either in RL or SL.
I’m glad that changes are in the works!
It was clear that the current system has been simply overwhelmed.
* * * * *
A crazy idea comes to mind:
1) A little toggle-able green dot for everyone’s user profile. Which indicates your availability to Live Help. Maybe the profile checkboxes could loosely indicate your areas of expertise. Bored in SL? Turn on your green dot!
Green means: “I may not be an expert, but I’m willing to try to help you.”
Instant crowdsourced help. I’ll bet most of us over 45 days old could answer 90% of the beginner questions, and would from time to time – for free.
Also might help create a lot of those good social connections that are so desperately needed in the new user experience.
Desmond Shang
Caledon
I agree that Live Help should be more focused on people who pay and less on us freebies. However I feel that it should be at least available to us when there’s no one out there asking for help. Perhaps make a ticket system under Help’s Live Help. It adds you to a queue to talk to someone in Live Help according to your problem (tech questions, billing, griefing, etc.). Everyone gets added first come, first served, but paying customers always get put ahead of basic accounts.
This way, you won’t have live help people sitting at their computers doing nothing and getting paid for it. >)
i agree with feynt, but im pretty sure live help is volunteer base and not getting paid, also desmonds idea might work, but the one main problem would be a**holes, pardon my language, clicking the green dot just so they can mess with noobs. ph, and dont get on my case if im wrong about something or im just being stupid, im only on tg after all, xD
If the previously mentioned “charging for support” means that premium accounts get priority, then I think that is a good step – although quite how this would work in practice I am struggling to comprehend.
I rather like the idea of the user chosen ‘opt in to help’ that was mentioned above, as many of us are happy to help new players, but for whatever reason aren’t or can’t be part of the ‘official’ help in the from of livehelp, mentor etc. Of course, there are going to be things like “someone is shooting at me” that we wouldn’t be able to handle, but if it was a simple “is it just me or is lag really bad tonight” then it doesn’t take someone with a degree in computing science to respond “yeah same here”.
The only problem with that is the policing of it – stupid answers like “CTRL Q fixes that” could easily make the whole thing useless because of our dear griefing friends who like to take any new opportunity. Perhaps restricting free accounts from joining the ‘volunteer helper’ scheme would be a way round this.
Broccoli
Prokofy brings up a few interesting points, especially about the no push default. However, restricting types of content is a bad idea; I guarantee you’ll have people calling for the restriction of other controversial content “for the good of SL,” with the slippery slope argument of reducing trouble, harassment, or controversy. It’s a bad precedent to set.
As for the customer service changes, I support them wholeheartedly, and was expecting them much sooner.
I support free accounts and a sale tax of some sort, I actively participate in the economy and would gladly pay my share like that. Non active accounts should also be eliminated some way.
Not registered as an official help, I also do teach others finding places and functionalities. I enjoy that, but would not like to commit to fixed hours, also I am fluent in four languajes and would not mind to help on the translation front. Keep it up and thanks for all the work
/me still hates the idea of paid service.
It is my absolute conviction that service is not a cost, but an investment.
These are good steps, and it’s nice to see that premium account holders will finally be getting some added value to their accounts that they deserve. I hope that users who take the step to verify, whether premium or not, will also receive priority over the unverified members.
A free trial period sounds like a good plan as well. To all the unverified account holders who are now here crying foul, I’d like to ask why you think this service should be free forever? If you get value from something, is it not worth paying for? You do nothing to contribute to the economy short of spending your initial Linden charity dollars (basically a money-sink), and you do this on the backs of premium and verified members who actually “pay the bills” so to speak. Your sense of entitlement is showing, and it’s not pretty.
***A crazy idea comes to mind:
1) A little toggle-able green dot for everyone’s user profile. Which indicates your availability to Live Help. Maybe the profile checkboxes could loosely indicate your areas of expertise. Bored in SL? Turn on your green dot!
Green means: “I may not be an expert, but I’m willing to try to help you.”
Instant crowdsourced help. I’ll bet most of us over 45 days old could answer 90% of the beginner questions, and would from time to time – for free.
Also might help create a lot of those good social connections that are so desperately needed in the new user experience.
Desmond Shang
Caledon
**************************************************
I like this thought…there are times I feel it the most enjoyably entertaining thing to do is to open the eyes of ‘Newbies” to the wonders of our world! Some have never explored beyond the initial “gotta get that hair” stage to gazing in amazement at the fantastic builds in world! The concerts, the art shows…the building competitions!!
I would ‘toggle the green switch’ to play Auntie Mame to newbies..to show them “The world is a smorgasbord, and most poor suckers are starving to death!”
There is…indeed…more to our world than sex, greed and rock’n’roll to paraphrase the famous quote
Enticing Dancer Says:
November 26th, 2006 at 5:47 pm
“if SL isn’t running well, then the corporations won’t be doing any business here since no one will be able to get to their sites. And please, make the basic a trial period, not an ongoing membership. $10 a month is not a lot to pay for SL, and I am getting tired of subsidizing the play of people who don’t see why they should pay to play.”
Okay, so really $10 a month is prolly helping cover bills by an okay or less then margine… maybe.
Think about this for a sec. Performance on an Island is $ times betterthen that on the mainland because there is one server per sim, whereas the mainland is 1 server to every four sims. The reason for this is that people who have islands are the ones that are really payin gthe bills, they buy equipment for the whole grid, pay for the bandwidth, and give us high performance zones gor us to play in. If they are a business (and most of them are) all they are asking for in return is TRAFFIC….
get it?
oh and i fogot to mention salaries for support ^^
I agree that Customer Service in Second Life is almost non-existent. The system certainly needs revision. I know the LiveHelp volunteers must be staggering under the weight of the problems destabilizing SecondLife. I’ve had outstanding assistance from them, and some which was decidedly less. I hesitate to think what SL will be like with a swelling population of untrained Newbies, denied the assistance which has come primarily from LiveHelp.
I’ve seen a number of posts recommending limiting or revising the use of basic accounts. It would be fair to place limitations on basic accounts created after some future date. However, whether you feel a basic account should be free forever or not is Not the issue. Linden Lab offered Basic Accounts Free of Charge without any time limit, and People signed up for them in good faith. It’s unfair to judge people for selecting the acount best suited to their resources. Countless of those same people undoubtedly rent property, buy clothes, accessories, toys, houses, and furniture. Hopefully they have taken classes and learned enough to contribute to SL in other ways as well. All of these things add to the SL economy. I myself had a basic account for half the year, and did all of those things. I only Upgraded to Premium when I decided to go forward with a sim purchase. It’s past time for well considered changes to more than the Customer Service at Linden Lab.
I joined in May, and the Second Life I came to know and love was truly a Magical Place. Although I log in almost every day, I Miss It Fiercely, because today SL is a different place entirely.
Aloha Lindens,
I want to say I appreciate the situation you are in, and want to help as much as I can. I believe there are many others who want to do so as well. I have applied to help as Live Help and as an instructor. I am sure there are also many who have done so as well. If a priority could be made to process these applications, then you can get those extra (free) hands to help out with the load. My experience with Live Help has been less than stellar, unfortunately, so I don’t see how a quick-and-dirty method of approval would degrade the quality of the answers/support. A little script could analyze correlations between current Live Help people (time inworld, ratings, friends, etc.) with the applications, and a mass acceptance/rejection email could be sent out. Anyway, just a suggestion.
Aloha,
Donnagh McDonnagh
@Boss Melnitz:
Yes, I am unverified. No, I do not think this service should be free forever. HOWEVER: I do feel that the service provided by LL should be free at least as long as there is no way to pay LL for there services other than CC or PP (which, in many nations requires a CC in order to become verified).
I know it is hard for many people to understand that people have no CC, but the truth is: not everybody earns enough to be eligible for one, especially not students. And I’ll go even further: in some countries, the concept of Debit Card is totally unknown.
In the meantime, I am unverified, but does this mean I pay absolutely nothing? Not quite, I can purchase L$ from someone else, who gets them of the LindeX. So, even though there is no clear record of me paying LL, it does not mean I don’t.
Ah well, guess I’ll use this opportunity to shout at LL again:
GIVE US MORE WAYS OF PAYING FOR PREMIUM MEMBERSHIP!!!
i had intended on asking whether Linden Labs has any information on new jobs that may be available in customer support.. so um i geuss i just did that..
but also i am afraid that i am slightly confused about the talk in comments on ‘getting rid of free accounts’.. i can’t see that this was even slightly suggested in this post. and also, the suggestion by others that ‘freebie’ accounts don’t contribute financially to Second Life is absurd. I am one of those people who honestly, cannot commit to a regular monthly fee (however small some might think it is) but the option to purchase Lindens via paypal etc is always there and i have used it from time to time.
though i’m a bit torn about the idea of paid accounts getting more access to customer service (for the reason that i think a ‘freebie’ account is debatable) i understand that this is a common set-up for many businesses. Frankly. i really am hoping that the knowledge base is updated. i almost never find what i’m looking for…
how can that be helped??
I keep pinging you :
– I’m french : I know french and english
– I own 9 islands : hosting the biggest french community (i had to raise the agent limit to 60 yesterday because one of my island was full without event set and without camping chair), i know the estate tools very well. I know the land tools too, and all that stuff.
– I’m unix system engineer and scripter : i know LSL, i’m confident with all that server stuff, i was also a CSR guy IRL (cluster administration)
– I’m offering a full island to volunteer, including a huge conference room : For some reasons i was unable to get interest from any Linden to find a way to use this region in an efficiant way to help customer support and volunteers.
– I’m a mentor (took me 8 months to be a mentor)
– I applied to be french liaison.
– I applied to be live helper.
– I make a living of secondlife
– Linden Lab need more staff.
For an unknow reason i have to BEG to works for linden lab for free.
Considering my full resume, i can easily find a well paid IT job quickly. Silly me ! I want to work for Linden Lab, not any-random-corporation.
I could be a concierge, i could be a french liaison, i could be a gridmoney, i could be a live helper, … And i’m just a begger, whining to be able to work for LL, even for free.
You tell me to “keep pinging you” while you “keep frustrating me”.
*sigh*
I have to second Kerunix’s comments. I speak 5 languages and have a similarly strong IT background. I have applied twice to volunteer as a liaison with no reply.
I know a number of people who have skills and experience and would love to help Linden Lab with their dream – but for some reason, are ignored.
Even after Philip(with one L)’s announcement at the last town hall… none of them who applied have heard a thing back.
Broccoli
Linden Lab need a “Linden Cop”.
e.g : Someone checking the even list, every day, for “abuse” of the event tool. With *immediate* sanction (event removed from the list and ingame warning or ban). I’m tired of reporting an abusive event to see it resolved 1 week after the end of the event.
This “scary linden” should tp and resolve any strong TOS violation in a minute. And looking for TOS violation by himself too.
I know Linden Lab can be very fast at answering emergency situation : Grey Goo Attack (i had one starting in one of my lands 😦 ), indecency or griefing in help island, …
Bu well… it’s about priority… i know that not every Linden can do that while answering 10 IM at once. That why a linden dedicated to this dirty job could be a good idea.
It’s not a cool job to be the “chuck norris” of secondlife, it’s not really cool for resident to know there is a “scary linden that eat a newbie with his coffee every morning”, … it’s just… needed.
Hey whats up with the raging on basic members, iam a basic member but still have pay info in my account and buy linden dollars and have spent at least $100 rl on my av, does that make me a scrounger, ummms think not
I’d be more than happy to volunteer to be an ‘events calendar monitor’ to get rid of the duplicate events, non-events and multiple back to back listings. The events calendar is basically useless right now, as it’s completely out of control.
When do I start?
Broccoli
Seems reasonable to me, I work in a service industry and ongoing support costs money which ultimatly needs to be paid for.
The only comment I would make is that quite a few people own land via Private Island Estates and I would hope (assuming they are also premium) they would qualify for a service level that equals mainland owners.
Regards
John
John, as far as I can tell, there is no way to record that a player is renting land from another user, so unless they are premium they would be classed the same as a non land owning free account.
Which, if you think about it, makes sense because they aren’t owning the land they are using.
Now, if the island owners suddenly became responsible for providing their tenant’s support… wouldn’t that be an interesting scenario?
Broccoli
Changes look good so far. That plan shows a lot of though and planning in it. I’m impressed.
With the scaling of the Live Help and liaisons, I would like to suggest adding additional IMs to the HELP menu. The reason a lot ask Live Help for everything is it’s name. “Live Help” implies any type of help from a live person. Perhaps this could be split into such categories as “Live Help from Resident Volunteers”, “Live Help from liaisons”, “Live Help – Technical”, “Live Help – Land”, “Live Help – Abuse/Griefing”, etc.
Not only would this help new Residents understand whom to contact, but would allow Linden Lab to place people where their skills and knowledge best suit. Resident Live Helpers could also be placed in multiple categories based on their knowledge. Allowing them to either answer, or more effectively route questions to the proper persons/teams.
Splitting into separate categories would also reduce the workload by lowering the influx surge of questions. Each team handles separate issues, yet can retain the ability to work together and pass questions back and forth as well.
~Jessy
Allow me to get idealistic here for a moment.
While I certainly can see the sense in providing paid accounts faster access to help, as people do deserve some benefit for their money, I think you’d be really doing the community a disservice by totally restricting access to aspects of customer support based on whether or not someone is paying monthly for their account.
I’ve been wary about ‘account segregation’ since the unverified free account thing sparked so much division between people who pay monthly and people who don’t, though up until now you’ve largely left the divisions to be called by the community. I understand that the community is becoming a bit too large to handle, but surely there must be a better way to support the community than to actually not support a portion of them. Perhaps develop a queue system where paid accounts get priority placing in the line. I’m all for incentives to become a paying resident; I intend to become one when it’s feasible for me. However, disincentives to be a ‘free’ account are not something I agree with.
Make things better for paid accounts. Don’t make things worse for everyone else. Maybe it’s sound business sense to do that sort of thing to some degree, as it intimidates people into getting paid accounts, but it doesn’t seem in keeping with Linden Labs’ philosophy.
When someone needs help, they need help. I hate the thought of someone being griefed or taken advantage of or cheated or harassed… only to find themselves unable to get the help they need because they haven’t become a paying resident. It sends shivers down my spine that we’re actually suggesting leaving people out in the cold because of their account status.
Maybe I’m describing a worst case scenario, but I just want to shed a little light on the other side of the spectrum here before people start shouting for penalties on unpaid accounts like they need to be punished or something.
The idea of paying money for help almost works, if it didn’t sound downright mercenary in nature. What about the people without money? Do they not deserve fair treatment? Isn’t Second Life supposed to be more of a community and a ‘nation’ than an MMO? Shouldn’t everyone get fair treatment? I know people spending their money on paid accounts are quick to say that the ‘less fortunate’ citizens of Second Life deserve nothing, that they’re freeloaders.
God, it’s amazing how quickly these things devolve into class warfare, even in a ‘virtual paradise’ where this sort of thing shouldn’t be a problem. All people care about is the money part. Money is important; but a healthy community should be more so.
If for no other reason, you shouldn’t be justifying the sort of elitism that spawns on the blog, lest the whole thing get out of control. I realize a lot of these elitists are the ones paying the bills… but a lot of the people not paying now will be paying the bills later. One of the reasons I love Second Life, and have stuck around for over a year now, is because it is kind of an ideal little world, and I don’t want to see that change.
I fully intend to become a full paying resident at some point in the future, and I guarantee you I’ll be saying the same things then as I am now. People are people. People with money should be entitled to luxuries; people without should not be denied the right to fair treatment.
… and on a more positive note, the restructuring all looks wonderful, I think it’s a huge step forward. Small organized groups will always achieve more than a huge unorganized mess of people, so I think it’s a great idea.
Really, that was what I was going to post about before I got to the end of the blog entry. 😉 So it’s not all negative!
The worst griefing of all is that which continues without break hour after hour day after day month after month without break. This abuse LL will do nothing about whatever. Which is directed purely at those owning or renting alnd.
What is it ?
Its the neighboring club/brothel which never has less than 25 partygoers/campers, and is frequently using the entire sim avi allowance.
Neighbors find their land virtually unusable, and therefore unsaleable at anything like the price they paid before the club arrived. My sim has time dilation excusing below 0.5 so frequently that building keeps going wrong, scripts run at an impossible crawl, and walking is through treacle if you can move at all.
I guess none of this matters to an avi sitting in a camping chair 24/7 whilst its owner sleeps or goes to work.
The only way customer support can help is by asking them for a sim restart. This makes my land usable for about half an hour until the camping chairs and pads fill up again, so if I build quickly I can get something done.
As a private island owner, i provide customer support to the residents living (and tourists too) in my region.
I do the Linden’s job, and i believe that a lot of “realtor” do that too.
Residents in private island should call their realtor, before calling the Linden support.
Harle: “The idea of paying money for help almost works, if it didn’t sound downright mercenary in nature. What about the people without money? Do they not deserve fair treatment? Isn’t Second Life supposed to be more of a community and a ‘nation’ than an MMO? Shouldn’t everyone get fair treatment?”
If Second Life is a country, then it’s certainly following the ‘welfare system’ where those paying are supporting those who aren’t making the effort to support themselves (in the context of contributing to the running costs that they incur when playing SL).
$10 a month is… one trip a week to Dunkin Donuts? A couple of McDonalds breakfasts or 3/4 of a pizza a month? A month’s worth of a daily newspaper? Yet I’m quite sure people think NOTHING about paying any of those.
I’m still unsure where people get the idea of it being an ‘entitlement’ to play Second Life. Really, those who contribute nothing financially to the running of SL should be grateful that they are here at all – rather than bemoaning that they aren’t getting everything for free that others are paying for. It’s no way ‘elitism’, by any stretch of the imagination. After all, if I’m paying to receive the same service as others are getting for free… why shouldn’t I just downgrade to freeloader as well?
Broccoli
I don’t see why being an online community means that SL should be free. I think free accounts should last one month only. Apart from raising more money it will cut down on griefing because I think many griefers don’t have a stake in SL. I suspect that much of the outcry against having to pay comes from SLifers with numerous free alts.
Hi Robin!
Thanks for posting your thoughts and plans in public for discussion!
If you’re looking for a German / English speaking Liaison, watch your Inventory 😉 I sent you a copy of the notecard I’ve been passing to a couple other Lindens already. I’d appreciate if you could at least confirm that you received and considered it 🙂
In the meantime I’ll tag up to Live Help whenever I have the time.
Hey Hey, lookie there LL ya all got on the ball with it and I’m glad to see it tho don’t mind this barking tho its at some these idiots coments.
First off. EVEN BASIC still ends up playing if they are buying L$, I myself know alot of basic players who still pay up the tail for stuff. All you people complaining on the way Basic works or how LL is running it… Do me a huge favor. SHUT UP!!. LL is who runs the accounts and runs the servers, if they want people who can not afford to run a month to month charge game on here or another one added to their list of games. Then they can go basic. If you wanna play this Favortisium BS over the Basic accounts.. Please go drive around some city drunk and wrap your cars around a telephone pole
You’ll have gone from one million to two million accounts in about two months.
Shouldn’t you have considered what that would have meant to your level of available customer service three months ago? Or were you too busy sucking on the corporate teet to think?
Nice to see you on the job tho.
This is an ambitious and comphrensive plan. Good Work!
Nothing needs to be discussed. “Changes” in customer service are not necessary. Providing the customer service that you have previously guarenteed would be a nice step.
It’s pretty clear that nobody is reading abuse reports any more. Seriously, lets stop kidding ourselves; that mailbox hasn’t been cleared out in months.
Last month I paid $200 dollars (about 60,000 Lindens) directly to Linden Labs on a LL brand suggestion box that feeds directly into a paper shredder.
I would like to be invited to one of the meetings Robin, I have 15+ years as a CSR manager. Basically I believe in down to earth, common sense rules towards customers and their problems, but most of all I believe in treating a customer as I would want to be treated in a similar situation. Feel free to call on me, but as mentioned before by others LL seems to want to turn its back on those that have good experience. I won’t beg..laffin, but if you’d like my ideas free of charge, this is a one time offer. Best of luck on your endeavors in this area, and I applaud any change (that works) in the customer service area of SL.
“Gigs Taggart Says:
Then why do you let your liasons put in their profiles “If you have a question, don’t IM me, contact live help”. There’s a reason Live Help became the front line, it’s because liasons don’t want to deal with actual customer requests unless it’s filtered through live help first.”
Liaisons are IN Live Help. They are helping answer the questions as they come in and probably trying to prioritize just as Robin said. When people IM them directly expecting an immediate response they are essentially “jumping line” and walking up to the desk ahead of everyone else.
What’s more, no one (not even a liaison) knows everything about anything. When you contact Live Help, everyone helping sees it and you have a better chance of someone in LH knowing the answer to your particular problem.
What they are politely saying is, “Please wait your turn. Someone will help you as soon as possible.”
On behalf of everyone who DOES wait patiently let me put it more directly, “Get back in line and wait your turn. They will get to you when they can. In the meantime, try searching F1 or something.”
I’m a newbie, been in SL for a couple of weeks & still on the free account. I don’t want to buy land and would be happy to upgrade to an account that does not include the ability to purchase land but costs less than the current premium account.
So far I have spent $10 to purchase L$ and intend to continue purchasing money to spend as I like in SL. I have met griefers twice so far and if I had not ignored them/teleported I may have given up on SL already – griefers cause you to loose new customers and potential money so should be dealt with severely – ban their IP, contact ISP, when they login use them for target practice 😉
Give the free accounts for a limited time only but make a premium non-land owning account available so I can contribute to SL please.
That is a fair point kerunix. In actual fact my own Estate Owner does the same, he tells me the only problem is that real life can become someting you do as an ocasional hobby. Let us hope all the new Island Owners who have purchased sims before the price hike with a view to going into the rental business give similar service
What I find one of the greater puzzles in Second Life is why Lindens all have off-putting notices on their profiles saying “don’t bother me, call Live Help,” but when you do call Live Help, Lindens are often the ones who answer.
Lindens should never appear on Live Help unless there is some great emergency like a threat to the entire grid. Either you believe in your volunteer system (I don’t) or you don’t. If you do, then it should be volunteers that are really the first line of defense. And I wonder how many volunteers and mentors and such we’ll see signing up when they realize that they are not dealing with premium and concierge customers anymore, who they could be spoon-feeding into their commerce circles and steering toward their stores, but who are merely an endless drain on their good will.
I believe that a large number of the accounts being made are fraudulant — that is, that they are secondary accounts for users whom want more accounts and are willing to supply false information, if they give information at all. Then again, I haven’t signed up for a ‘brand spankin new first timer account’ lately.
Point is, the number of complaints and other problems the Lindens have to deal with won’t neccesarily increase dramatically just because the number of accounts increases dramatically. Unfortunately, new accounts are sometimes used by people whom wish to cause problems… so it’s more difficult to make bad people disappear for good.
On the bright side, not all of those 600,000 accounts are alternates, which means we have growth!
…I just wish newbies wouldn’t hit on me in the sandboxes that often.
Robin: Another thing that you may consider doing is making in-world groups for the different support groups. Put Lindens into which group they are in, or consider making a second last name for the people whom are in the governing group (although I doubt that’s a good idea because it would most likely confuse people).
But at least that way, people won’t be knocking up the wrong Linden for something they want done.
Glad to see it though. One of the main problems I saw with another company on a former system was that they went from 100,000 to 1,000,000, and they didn’t hire a single additional customer support personel. And I quit when they released their updated game version with features that specifically allowed people to get onto other people’s accounts and steal all their hard-earned gear. I’ll save you the gorey details.
Point is, thank you for caring. And I mean it.
One thing I don’t understand is why everyone is so worried about how many accounts there are. It truly doesn’t matter if their are one million, 3 million, etc.. We only see maybe 16,000 online at a time.My guess is maybe as much as 75% of all these accounts are secondary, or test accounts that people will never log in with again. The numbers don’t mean anything, unless we start seeing 30, 40, 50,000 people IN GAME at a time. (great target to shoot for, yes?)
As long as people can still have issues fixed without *having* to pay extra for support, this is a good thing. But I don’t want to have some cryptic error message, call up or e-mail support, and be told “please upgrade your account to premium, or pay $9.95 to get problems fixed”, as this would only encourage LL to cause problems.
Hi, Robin, I’m so glad to hear all this. At the meeting with Philip the other day I mentioned the need for better “onboarding.” I have been spreading the word among friends about this next-gen platform that is SL and find that many have a hard time “getting started”–there’s one student in my grad school class who complains to me that she’s still “naked and wandering around in the bushes”! (LOL!) After two months in SL, I made the move to premium, bought land in Red Rocks Mesa, and put down an adobe house which I’m now furnishing. I write the Landmarks column for the SLED Picayune and review role-playing sims for SLatenight. In RL, I’m an online community leader so let me know if I can help in any way as you improve the member experience. Best regards.
Making people pay too much to do basic things in SL (eg have an account, get problems fixed) would totally destroy the Teen Grid.
Teen: Can I buy an account on this online game thingy?
Parent: No!
or
Teen: Can I do a $0.50/minute tech support call?
Parent: No!
Teen: Can I upgrade to Premium to get support?
Parent: No!
(Teen gets mad at LL for charging money and leaves SL.)
It seems that Albion DeVaux, Boss Melnitz, Randal Oulton, Lynn_Evelyn, Preston Whitehead, Gypsy Garden and Enticing Dancer have all voiced a concern against Freebies (or unlimited access as such).
Please allow SL to remain a FREE world that actively uses the concept of supply and demand.
You Linden’s have opened up a “Brave New Virtual World” and will decide how best to reap the rewards. If you cater to the businesses (RL and SL) then they will want to be protected from the potential wild element present. Though just a Freebie and currently a Newbie I’ve already come across regions properly preventing me access thanks to your permissions.
As to being a Freebie, I think that is a BRILLIANT move! Those that wish to become residents can do so, but traffic is what drives business profits. Those advertising dollars will come with number of actual eyes present. You WANT people to be able to access SL to play with the creations, to explore the possibilities. Those that become residents already have special privileges.
I would like to end with a somewhat related suggestion. Apparently a renter is not recognized as a resident. There should be a RESIDENT status to indicate someone is actively contributing L$ to SL by renting land from a landowner, granted by the landowner. Just another statistic, but it should provide a demographic similar to what we see in RL. I.E. the rich (landowners) rely on the poor (renters).
I’m so glad there’s going to be a ticketing system for Live Help.
It would be so wonderful to be able to have a little “Escalate..” button next to that “Teleport..” button which passes on the session and the session log to one of the duty liaisons.
@Prokofy:
It’s very simple to explain: Everyone has experience in different fields, so it’s better to ask a group of people (Live Help) a question and let those, who know the answer, step forward, than asking a random Linden who might know nothing about that particular topic. And often there are non-emergency questions on Live Help that require a Linden answer nonetheless.
Live Help as a volunteer program is a good thing, but anyone who is part of this program knows, how exhausting it can be at times. Put your Live Help hat on and prepare to be swamped with help requests in a matter of minutes. There are never enough volunteers to handle all of them, so the Lindens do their share to help and answer as well.
There is no doubt in my mind that the large numbers of SLers are due to the “free” or unverified accounts. That being said, I am curious as to what percentage of these are because they have no way of getting a verified account (i.e. no CC, no access to paypal). Perhaps offering a six month or year long subscription payable by money order or check would allow some of these to become paying members. It is not difficult to believe that there are many out there with multiple unverified accounts that are choking the system and are havens for miscreants. I dont care so much about being a paying member and someone else not paying as I am about the entree this gives to those that simply are creating problems one way or the other.
I’ve never had a problem with support. Each time I’ve used it, I was happy (and sometimes surprised) to receive courteous and professional help.
But of course, from the sound of things, many people *have* had problems, and I’m grateful to see Linden Labs doing the best they can to resolve these issues.
But people need to know that, just because they’re paying, a Linden cannot magically appear every time they scream to come look at the empty freebie box someone left behind on their land, when there are people with much more serious problems to be addressed.
I’ll press the Love Button 3 times for this one – XXXOOO – great work guys and gals (and er, people with colorful codicepieces and stuff – I mean, what’s up with that)!
Seems that there is a little bit of confusion here. When I started with SL, I paid $9.95 to “join”. That was for a basic account and was a one-time fee. I didn’t have to pay every month. A fee like that is not intolerable at any level. This type of account needs to be started up again. Later, I upgraded to premium which I decided to do quarterly to keep my monthly cost down some but I could not financially manage the entire year at one time. Later, I got smart and purchased land on a private sim. That way, I could revert to a basic account and not pay monthly tier fees to the Lindens but I did pay to the people that originally owned the sim I bought land on. My total cost at that time was less than paying for a premium account and purchasing land from the Lindens or another account holder. (Also, being a basic member doesn’t mean that I’m not contributing to the economy either as, in the case sited above, I still paid fees like many others.)
My point here is that people could pay the one time fee and not lose their shirt and feel more entitled to the services that need to be provided. Being a premium member, at this point, is no guarantee of anything like customer service. There have been plenty of times I’ve IMd Live Help, waited for a loooong time and never gotten an answer. It would be helpful to at least get “you are number ten in line” or some other message to let me know that at least someone will be contacting me soon.
“and shed the illusion that people are going to create viable shooting games. They shouldn’t be…and they won’t.” -Prokofy
Come on. Some of my biggest selling games are shooting games. I have and I will create shooting games. Open your eyes sometime and see what’s really out there.
John Horner brings up a *very* good point.
There are people with over 1/4 sim in Caledon, and while yes, I spend a LOT of time answering basic customer service issues I don’t think these people should be ‘second class’ when it comes to Company customer service.
Premium or not, they are spending a LOT of money. Even the most profitable land barons get about half, and the other half goes to tier.
Demographically, island communities have to be waaaay up there in terms of long term, stable customer percentages – the ‘gold’ customers that come back month after month, advertise the service to friends, &c. Customers you *want* to support.
So three big hits to island ownership for ‘the little guy’:
– 34% increase to purchase price
– 51% increase to tier
– loss of live customer support, for those that go basic to ‘pitch in’ with friends for island
So, what would be a solution? How about this. Have X amount of land in your name, anywhere on the grid, private or no – for a pass to customer service commensurate with expenses. Add a 30 day requirement or something to prevent funny business.
Not a perfect solution, but perhaps something that might be considered in time.
This sounds absolutely fantastic, and if you can pull it off, definitely what is needed. Best of luck with these revisions, if this works well I might consider joining the volunteer service myself!
Are there any plans afoot for how these additional costumer service folks’ll be hired? ‘cuz I know I’d be interested…
To start with, I am relatively new, starting 6 weeks ago. But I’ve learned a lot. I also enjoy being a helper bee and know more knowledgeable helper bees to refer people to or refer queries to. That is a function of SL society’s milk of human kindness which will always be available.
I haven’t caught anyone herein making the distinction between those who are subscribing and those who are not subscribing but spending money. Like any store or any casino or any place open to the public, SL is free but stuff, in many forms, is available at a cost. That seems reasonable to me at my current level of consciousness in SL. I am not a subscriber yet I have spent $80 in 6 weeks. I don’t know about you, but to me that’s real money. I’d pay money for certain things like to see a really cool structure or for learning. I’d also pay a fee to change my home to my favorite place to chill and regroup.
I am a virtual teacher by profession and see ways our “man behind the curtain” systems work and imagine the same is going on at Linden. I do appreciate the info sharing.
As to guns — There is no need to carry a gun for protection, so right to bear arms falls apart.
Like any other entertainment(?) the playing with projectiling tools should be limited either in their effect on others or a well publicized indication of where and where not they can inflict a projectile on another person. What’s so hard about that logic? (My opinion is colored by the fact that I was a victum of a hate crime in SL recently.)
Keep up the good work!
Oh well, it’s a wonderful (Second) life…
Albion – there’s this little thing called “money” that some people don’t have.
There are these plastic rectangles called “Credit Cards” that some people do not have.
If you are one of these people they you have a right to comment on free accounts.
If you are not one of these people …then kindly give all your money away, shred your credit cards, and turn any assets you have over to someone else to take care of them for you. THEN you will have a right to make comments about free accounts.
One month trials are FINE for those that can actually pay the fee to be upgraded, and then the monthly fee. right now there is NO incentive (not even increased customer support) for the people out there without direct access to a credit card or any money at all.
My incentive? deletion of each and eevry account that has ever complained about Free accounts, blamed Free Accounts for everything under the sun …. in essence the Premium Baby crowd that loves to think that the unpaying masses are the root of all evil.
Hate to break it to all the Premium and above users … but your rights to complain about free accounts END where it begins to become a crass generalization on all of us.I didn’t sign up to be kicked off or forced to upgrade after ANY amount of time. I signed up BECAUSE it’s free. I intend to stay as long as it is free …. and quite frankly the attitude I see directed at Free Accounts is the sort of Elite snobishness that turned me away from other venues.
Grow up people: You’re not the only ones that matter in this world.
I’ve been in SL for almost 2 months and I’ve had a horrible, HORRIBLE customer service experience. It has been completely non-existent. I’ve begged for help and get very little or ignored. A few drops in the bucket. Trying to become a premium member has been a serious test in what kind of crap I will put up with from a company that wants my business. Why do I want to pay money for this? If I ran my RL business and treated my customers this way, I would be living on the streets.
@Desmond Shang
I love the green dot idea! It could even show above your title, in-world. I have been known to wander around, from time to time, with the title “Need any help?” even though I’m not an official volunteer – I feel that I can be just as helpful to people without suffering the pressure and thanklessness of the overburdened volunteer group, thank you.
But people like to turn to official sources of help – after all, any malicious nutjob could go around pretending to help people. So some kind of recognised community support system would be really great for filtering the easy questions and relieving pressure on the live help and liaison teams – you’re right, 90% of questions CAN be answered by older residents, but newbies just don’t like to ask. Especially with the general atmosphere of ‘newb=freeloader+potential griefer’ which has started to pervade the community, even to mentor level. Honestly, the way some of you people behave, I’m surprised ANY newcomer stays around in SL longer than a week…
@ All Lindens, re Kerunix Flan
Interesting post there. Is there some reason he’s not telling us why you won’t hire him? Or does this just illustrate the incompetence of the system? Time and again, I hear this sort of bewilderment from people who really sound like the second coming in terms of helpstaff.
I’d love to hear a Linden comment to this…
*SIGH*
Oh … and ona related note:
Albion, you also lost your right to comment on Free Accounts the instant you jumped on the “Freebie Accounts are nothing but Griefers” bandwagon.
I’m a Free Account – (hey look at this, you actually get to look me up in world now. Harassing IMs WILL be dealt with. Bans from areas that are normally open to everyone will be dealt with. I am vindictive when it somes to this shit….) Solar Legion, I work UNPAID BY THE OWNER at The Ark in Fur Nation Prime. I don’t see much in tips at all, in fact my recent purchase of an Inverted Tiger Avatar from Lost Forest Creatures took almost all of my tip money …. and the little that I had been given by one of my best friends to start out with. I don’t go around causing all sorts of problems with Bomb dropping guns, cagers, Orbiters, or any sort of annoying weapon. The only time you’ll see a particle effect is when someone actually asks to see a poofer that I MIGHT have on hand. I go to Help Island Public and help anyone I can …. I have NO reason to buy OR rent land at this time, I see NO reason to have to PAY for customer service.
In essence the life I lead in Second Life mirrors my own to a point. some things cannot translate over so I’ll tell you them, and perhaps this will explain why I am so adamant in this:
I live in a small town in New Jersey. This is the sort of town that doesn’t abide by all the federal laws all the time – for example there’s a racist undercurrent to the place. There’s also a lot of resentment to anyone that has even the slightest disability. I know … I’m disabled. I have a condition called Ocular Albinisim. for those of you that don’t know what that is …. My eyes are VERY light sensitive. I wear sunglasses no matter where I go, no matter the lighting (excluding night lights). In addition to this my sight is so bad that I canot see my own feet. top it all off with a USELESS Commision for the Blind and Visually Impaired (worst in the US) that will not tell you a bloody thing if you don’t already know it.
I am on SSI – and thanks to the state’s way of seeing it I’m not allowed to get it directly. it is handled by my father (note, I am 23). I have no credit, no way at this time to get a job (gotta love this place), and for want of a better way of putting it don’t see much of the money that comes in. In fact I’m lucky to see any of it at all. To tell you how much of it I see, I see MAYBE $20 every three months – and that’s not always the case.
so, as you can see I have every right to tel anyone with a Premium account, or that owns their own SIM off for their attitude with Free accounts. I’m not here to make LL richer, I’m not here to make SIM or Shop owners richer …. I’m here for the boost to my creativity that this has been. Nothing more and nothing less. to further this I have to actually EARN Lindens. I don’t sell anything, I have yet to find a place that’ll hire me (who needs a bartender when everyone can just go out and get the items themselves?).
You’ll pardon me if the attitude directed at free accounts is a vexation.
gotta love that filter … if this double posts… deal with it.
Oh … and ona related note:
Albion, you also lost your right to comment on Free Accounts the instant you jumped on the “Freebie Accounts are nothing but Griefers” bandwagon.
I’m a Free Account – (hey look at this, you actually get to look me up in world now. Harassing IMs WILL be dealt with. Bans from areas that are normally open to everyone will be dealt with. I am vindictive when it somes to this s**t….) Solar Legion, I work UNPAID BY THE OWNER at The Ark in Fur Nation Prime. I don’t see much in tips at all, in fact my recent purchase of an Inverted Tiger Avatar from Lost Forest Creatures took almost all of my tip money …. and the little that I had been given by one of my best friends to start out with. I don’t go around causing all sorts of problems with Bomb dropping guns, cagers, Orbiters, or any sort of annoying weapon. The only time you’ll see a particle effect is when someone actually asks to see a poofer that I MIGHT have on hand. I go to Help Island Public and help anyone I can …. I have NO reason to buy OR rent land at this time, I see NO reason to have to PAY for customer service.
In essence the life I lead in Second Life mirrors my own to a point. some things cannot translate over so I’ll tell you them, and perhaps this will explain why I am so adamant in this:
I live in a small town in New Jersey. This is the sort of town that doesn’t abide by all the federal laws all the time – for example there’s a racist undercurrent to the place. There’s also a lot of resentment to anyone that has even the slightest disability. I know … I’m disabled. I have a condition called Ocular Albinisim. for those of you that don’t know what that is …. My eyes are VERY light sensitive. I wear sunglasses no matter where I go, no matter the lighting (excluding night lights). In addition to this my sight is so bad that I canot see my own feet. top it all off with a USELESS Commision for the Blind and Visually Impaired (worst in the US) that will not tell you a bloody thing if you don’t already know it.
I am on SSI – and thanks to the state’s way of seeing it I’m not allowed to get it directly. it is handled by my father (note, I am 23). I have no credit, no way at this time to get a job (gotta love this place), and for want of a better way of putting it don’t see much of the money that comes in. In fact I’m lucky to see any of it at all. To tell you how much of it I see, I see MAYBE $20 every three months – and that’s not always the case.
so, as you can see I have every right to tel anyone with a Premium account, or that owns their own SIM off for their attitude with Free accounts. I’m not here to make LL richer, I’m not here to make SIM or Shop owners richer …. I’m here for the boost to my creativity that this has been. Nothing more and nothing less. to further this I have to actually EARN Lindens. I don’t sell anything, I have yet to find a place that’ll hire me (who needs a bartender when everyone can just go out and get the items themselves?).
You’ll pardon me if the attitude directed at free accounts is a vexation.
I’m not sure it’s ethical for LL to post their reasons for not hiring some specific person. In the US, you can probably get sued for it.
How many people expect a free AOL account just because they can’t afford it?
How about free cable or DSL if their budgets can’t handle the monthly connection fee?
I think it’s wonderful that so many creative people have been allowed free access to SL and have been able to make a contribution to the community, but it’s a GIFT, not a right, to have that free access. And getting snarky about the debate over whether or not that gift should continue is really misplaced anger.
By all means, continue to make persuasive arguments in favor of free accounts by providing examples of all the deserving people who benefit from this policy, and continue to illustrate the ways in which these people can make meaningful contributions that can’t be measure in real dollars.
But please drop the attitude about demanding free access to SL as some kind of right. No one has a right to get commercial products for free.
RE: Making free accounts ‘trials’ and forcing people to up to premium after a while.
If this happened, I would have to leave, plain and simple. I buy between 10 and 100 USD worth of L$ every month off the LindeX, depending on my needs and my available cash flow. However, my having spare money is highly intermittent. I can’t afford to /have/ to pay $10 the same day of every month. The odds of me having $72 free and clear to buy a full year of Premium are fairly low. Plus, even if full scale Support goes to being limited for free accounts, I /still/ don’t have any incentive to have a Premium account: I rent more land every month than Premium teir allows, Premium Stipends are a joke (and getting smaller every few months… how long till they’re gone entirely?), and I very rarely bother with support in the first place… if I run into a problem I can’t solve on my own, I ask around my Friends list to see if anyone else knows a solution, and if they don’t, I try Live Help. If that doesn’t work, I just live with it till it goes away, which generally it does. The ‘monthly charge problem’ is the primary reason I’ve never gotten into any other MMO (EverCrack, WoW, etc)… because again, I don’t know for certain that I’m going to have spare cash on a given day to pay my monthly fee.
And to the frequently trotted-out claim that ‘anyone who can afford a computer that’ll run Second Life can afford Premium’, I’d like to politely respond with a resounding ‘WRONG!’. I own three computers, all of which are /capable/ of running SL (though only one of them runs it WELL). One was a gift from my mother when she bought a new computer earlier this year. One (the ‘good’ one) has been gradually cobbled together from parts purchased (or gifted) over time. The third is cobbled together from cast-offs from the ‘good’ computer’s upgrades. I’m fairly sure I’m NOT unique in this situation, so please stop this sort of classist idiocy, as all it really does is expose the ignorance of those using it as an argument.
:wildly applauds Steph:
::Applauds Interfect Sonic, Just a thought and Stephanie Draper for attempting to open the eyes of the wilfully blind::
I think it illustrate an internal communication problem inside Linden Lab.
I’m not the only one in this case, so i think it’s not a problem with me, but with LL.
Robin Linden tell us to IM her.
90% of the messages will be lost because her IM will be capped ?
mmccann Says:
November 27th, 2006 at 8:38 am
Are there any plans afoot for how these additional costumer service folks’ll be hired? ‘cuz I know I’d be interested…
————————————————
Some advice my friend.
I work from home and deal with people that in some cases I have known for years if not decades, and regard myself as okay in relating to customer service issues having had quite a few years experiance doing it.
However some of you miserable lot in SL would tax the patience of a saint let alone ordinary folk, but the best of luck to you if you want this and get hired. -:)
Regards
John
Yes, or we can drop notecards on her that she won’t have time to read, and will be lost due to asset server errors (I recently exchanged some items from my alt account to my main and they were eaten. Glad they were copyable.)
I’ve tried profile-dropping Lindens with actual presents I’ve made, to thank them for their efforts, and heard nothing back, not even a simple ‘got your gift, gee, thanks!’ I can only assume that they don’t log onto their accounts very often, or that the system messes up a lot of transfers.
Or maybe they don’t dare rez items dropped on them outside request, in case they turn out to be grey goo bombs!!
Quote: Broccoli
“$10 a month is… one trip a week to Dunkin Donuts? A couple of McDonalds breakfasts or 3/4 of a pizza a month? A month’s worth of a daily newspaper? Yet I’m quite sure people think NOTHING about paying any of those.” meybe in America
what you dont take into account
US$10 a month in some parts of the world can represent a whole weeks food
and what about fluctuating exchange rates? if you had to budget to afford US$10 a month you would pay a fixed price each month if you’re in the US, but if you live outside the US its not even the same price each month!
And Credit cards……. it took me nearly 3 years of trying, to actually get one. other people cant even get one so how can they pay, even if they want to pay?
It is a great company that asks its people for input. Thank you.
I just wanted to comment on Live Help. I love it ! I’ve asked about 10 questions on Live Help and have always recieved an immediate, courteous and accurate reply. Twice Lindens actually telported to my location to solve a problem.
What I love about Live Help is that I’m usually working. If I run across a problem, I spend an hour or even days trying to resolve it myself or through friends before contacting LH. But when I do contact LH, it means that help is just a click away in an IM format that is easy and immediate.
@John Horner : As an active mentor in help island, i know what you mean 😉
Enticing Dancer: And please, make the basic a trial period, not an ongoing membership. $10 a month is not a lot to pay for SL, and I am getting tired of subsidizing the play of people who don’t see why they should pay to play.
I am really damned sick of this attitude. I am downgrading my account to basic – but I am hardly a freeloader. I play about three gigs a week, and work my ass off. I rent land on a private island which costs me more than paying for a premium account. If you think that just because my account is a Basic one it means I contribute nothing to SL, why don’t you talk to the people who come to see me play? Let them know that you think my account should be disabled after my “trial period”. Let them know that you think that because my account is Basic, that I am not welcome. Let them know that because I am a Basic account that I should be blocked from logging in.
Then see how fast you can run.
I’m on a free account, but regularly buy L$ to purchase SL stuff and as such do contribute to the Linden economy… might even go to a paid account soon (if the serious griefers are being dealt with).
I think there’s a bigger problem with duplicate or one-time-only logins that are inflating the numbers. In fact… is there even a way to cancel a free account once created, if you don’t wish to come back?
First of all, thank you. I’m a very picky person in RL and easily unsatisfied. But when it comes to SL customer support I’m blown away everytime by the responses I get, the Live Help especially. No other company I’ve ever dealt with has had this good customer support and if it’s going to improve, then maybe you could write an e-book about how to do this and sell to companies around the globe? It would sure make the world a simpler place 🙂
Thanx alot for a brilliant job.
Serano.
Chronic Skronski Says:
…
Then see how fast you can run.
Word!
Diesel… I wasn’t aware that playing Second Life was a basic guaranteed Human Right under the Geneva Convention. If you’re in a country where $10 is a week’s food… then if you can afford a high speed internet connection and computer, $10 isn’t such a big deal. I also know about exchange rates, but when you’re talking $10 it hardly fluctuates month to month. Sure, if you’re buying multiple islands at $1675 then it may make a few pounds/euros/whatever difference but it’s still not a big deal in the quantities of money that the majority of people are spending. Finally, if your budget is that tight that whether your monthly fee works out at $9 or $11 actually makes a difference… I’d seriously rethink my priorities.
Robin… you say that the meetings will be held at ‘various times so everyone can be involved’. Is it simply a case of the first 100 people to apply get in, or will you schedule additional meetings if necesary so everyone who is interested really can be involved?
Broccoli
Broccoli, it seems you purposly skipped the posts that didn’t fit in with your agenda ….
Instead of bashing anything any anyone that disagrees with you and skipping over the people that prove your entire reason for posting against free accounts wrong …. try actually reading once in a while.
LOL John Horner. Amen.
JAT…. Maybe I need to make the distinction between verified and unverified accounts clearer. Sometimes I don’t always explain things fully (although it makes sense to me because I know things you don’t because I didn’t type them), so do accept my apologies.
If someone has taken the time to verify their account, and purchased game money, then they are contributing to the economy at the very least.
An unverfied, non-paying account, that sits in camping chairs overnight in order to gain a few L$ contributes nothing except lag, and skewing traffic figures against the honest, quality places that are left.
If there are any other points you feel I have overlooked, please don’t hesitate to ask for clarification.
Broccoli
I should perhaps make something clear myself – I have not yet verified this account. Those I live with don’t really trust online security and frankly neither do I. I do what I can with the little I make in tips.
I see a lot of help requests come to various large groups I belong to. Other group members are always willing to help.
How about creating some help supergroups? If a user felt like helping out, or if the user needed help, in the “Interests” tab of one’s profile, the user could toggle on or off various help groups (check boxes) they could participate in. A user could sit in their favorite sl cafe and answer help requests in their IM. Bored? Turn on a couple help channels!
***EMPLOY ME!***
Yesterday I dropped into the newbie spawning area, just to see if anyone needed halp and som questions answered, I found an indencently undressed avatar controlled by someone with I suspect mentality of a 10yo swearing, insulting, pushing & cornering new people spawning. I sent 2 abuse reports and I know at least 3 others were sent in but he was still going for an hour before he got bored or was kicked, imagine your first 5 min in the game as a woman being pushed, held into a corner & abused buy some idiot like this , I saw at least on new player log out. But response time was useless PR damage done could have been very significant, but a slow response from Lindens if any, bet this clown wasn’t paying a monthly fee to do this.
Bottom line is this game will never improve & evolve by adding 1000’s more non-contributing people.
Oh yeah it’s classist I suppose but it still costs less than basic monthly internet access, so if you can’t afford it, probably can’t afford bottom line internet access either.
Bottom line is this game will never improve & evolve by adding 1000’s more non-contributing people.
Isn’t it fun to decide who those non-contributing types are? I know its just delish for me.
Yes, clarifying no contributing is a problem I suppose, some not paying fees may contribute constructivly, others just camp in chairs 24/7 on free accounts for cash what do they contribute toward the development of the game after 2 years? Other than cause lag for other non AFK people.
Who says you need to be upgraded to premium anyway could be as little as $5 per month for basic. Or we all go basic, let the game stagnate like other MMO’s have and die, everyone would be real happy when the servers are switched off, though of course those who never paid a cent would be less concerned about this happening. I’m sure some megacorp $20 per month clone will rise up to replace it then.
Bottom line: some people – like me for example – cannot afford basic anything. Maybe if people read the comments they’d know that for some, $5 is a lot.
“Performance on an Island is 4 times betterthen that on the mainland because there is one server per sim, whereas the mainland is 1 server to every four sims.”
I don’t know where this myth got started, but it’s BS. I’ve seen it twice now. Estate land has the same sim/server density on the same class servers as mainland.
JAT, You seem to have a chip on your shoulder against people on this blog, that doesn’t help the situation or your position. I have read, basically every comment on this post (I may have missed a few, I am human, there are over 120), and made sure I read yours.
First off, I am sorry about your disabilities and the fact that it leaves you in a difficult position financially, socially, etc.
However, my question is. If the people you live with are so fearful of online security and paying online, etc. How is it that you have access to a internet connection that is fast enough to run Second Life. While I guess it MIGHT be possible to run SL on a dial-up connection, I can’t imagine that it would be any fun for anybody on it as it would be a slideshow (it’s bad enough on my highspeed at times). Therefore you are most likely on a high-speed connection that is an extra cost, and can be expensive.
I would be surprised then to find that it wouldn’t be possible to at least give some kind of verification information/pay a small fee. The money is coming from somewhere. I understand you say that you see only about $20 every few months. So how are you connecting to the net?
I am not saying I agree or disagree with people saying that unverified accounts need to be ended. LL would probably do well to add some additional ways to become verified (money order, check, etc.). However when the day ends, security is an issue, and when people are paying sometimes $100s of dollars a month, and the product is buggy, overloaded, and other issues. It is understandable that they would want answers. Many of the problems seem to have occurred since unverified accounts were allowed, possibly a coincidence, maybe, maybe not.
I also would like to say a thank you to LL for coming forward with what looks like a thought out plan of attack to address these issues of customer service. There is no way that you will be able to make everyone happy & the fact remains that you are a company that needs to make a profit (those VCs get hungry after a while :-D).
Please, if I can exhort you at all, FOLLOW THROUGH, there have been complaints about people not getting responded to on resume submissions, get back to them! Please LL, you have a system here with much potential, only limited by your ability to communicate and work with your customers.
We’d updated to DSL simply because of cost effectiveness. we were paying more for dial-up and our connection, as well as a second phone line than we do now with DSL.
The money for it comes from my parents work checks and my SSI – same with all the bills, hence why I personally see so little of it.
That $20 is being saved for something a bit more worthwhile to me too. ….. an engagement ring for my fiancee.
JAT, Congrats on getting engaged, that’s awesome…I recently got married myself, it is a fantastic thing! If I can give you one piece of advice in relation to ongoing conversation on this blog, is be a little more patient with people here. Understand that there are some who have put a significant investment of time and money in this system; while that is no slam if you are not able/willing/have other things of higher priority, those who have paid a lot of money (some even depend upon this system for much of their living) have concerns that you don’t.
The assumption often made is that unverified accounts increased those concerns; and that the gain from unverifieds to the economy wasn’t worth the problems that arrived. Is that possibly untrue, sure, however at this point nobody knows for sure, and when things seem to be more unstable then before a certain event, people get concerned and want resolution. LL has done something with SL that no other company has done before, making the system free, completely free. There are going to be consequences for new ideas; often times they will be weathered, and people will move on, sometimes the new idea ends up to be a mistake.
It doesn’t sound like you are one of those causing issues, and you feel stuck in a over-generalization, I understand. Just please be patient with everyone as peopel try to figure things out.
:nod: Unfortunatly I have little patience for some …. and there are some that have already frayed my nerves concerning them.
One thing I’d strongly recommend that customer service figure out soon is how to deal with camping chairs/dancepads and excess avatar presence bumping off paying landowners (big ones at that) to the point that they cannot even enter the sim.
The case posted in Linden Answers is just the beginning of a potentially explosive issue.
Sounds like a good thing. Never too late to get the horse in front of the cart.
Most people put on the bathing suit Before going swimming.
I would also limit free accounts inventory and most important and clear to me, dissallow ANY script creation/edit/moving.
Might even end up creating conditions where paying makes some sort of sense (performance and stability aside).
That, Les, would destroy any reason for those of us actually contributing on free accounts to even be here.
Zarith… you seem to be implying that Money = Time and Effort and Investment.
I have put a huge amount of time and creativity and effort into Second Life since I signed on a year ago. I’ve created a shop, I’ve rented vendor space to sell things, I’ve built two clubs; one for myself, one on commission, I’ve created a build that some people call ‘famous.’ It certainly stands out in Olive at any rate. I’ve paid DJs and live musicians to entertain people whom I charged nothing, so that said entertainers could make tips while me and the co-owner just tried to have a good time with everyone. I’ve been an admin on a fairly important sim before it disappeared due to cost constraints. I’ve completely designed my own avatar from scratch, along with 90% of the stuff that I wear. I’ve done all of that and spent more L$ on things I never wear or use than I can count. I’ve tipped DJs and musicians, helped friends out when they were low on money and wanted something badly.
And suffice to say, I think there’d be a lot of… ‘upstanding’ paying citizens would be pretty pissed off if suddenly I wasn’t allowed to log in because of my current real life constraints.
Which, yes, means that I have done all of this, everything listed and a lot more, without ever paying a real life penny for Second Life. I’ve managed to -earn- the money to do these things. I’ve managed to -earn- the respect and friendships of dozens of people. Oh, but right, I’m just a filthy freeloader.
Sorry. I guess I’ll just pack up my pup tent and bottle collection and move along so you can have your little world free of all those undesirables.
Not everyone who doesn’t have the money for a monthly subscription is some uncontributing low-life. I don’t -buy- L$ because I don’t -need- L$. I make enough -in- Second Life that it’s not required. That’s doing more than a little in keeping Second Life’s economy healthy. In fact, by -not- buying new L$ into the system, while facilitating other people spending their money, I’m helping keep the economy stable.
And guess what? I still intend to get a full paid account. Not for the money, not for the land, god knows I pretty much have access to more than enough land. So why? It’s certainly not for the privileges of customer support.
I want to get an account because I want to support Second Life. The world -I’ve- come to know, not the ones you greedy people seem to want for yourselves. I want to support a community like Second Life where people who can’t pay aren’t treated like second class citizens.
You love Second Life? You should be happy to support it, instead of getting pissy at everyone who doesn’t share the burden. How immature can you possibly be? There’s more to Second Life than people paying monthly fees; there’s people who contribute in countless other ways, and it’s something you would do well to grasp.
GRR. How ironic. I just deeded a portion of land to a group and now I’m not concierge level. And live help just gives me a we-can’t-hear-you response! And this is because my live helper assured me I wasn’t leaving anything on the table deeding to my own group!!!!! The irony is full-circular!!! HELP
Personally, what I think needs to happen is for someone to come up with more verification methods than simple ‘payment info’. A mailed (or faxed) photocopy of some variety of photo identification should be sufficient in most cases. That should ease a LOT of the unverified problem, and only THEN could unverified accounts be restricted in the ways some people have been suggesting. (Basic doesn’t need to be restricted, unverified basic does, since that’s where the griefers live. And yes, I know, not all unverified basics are griefers, but the majority of griefers are going to be Unverified because they can just throw the account away when they’ve done their damage)
Promises, Promises.
Not everyone …
yes… not everyone can play secondlife.
You’re one of thoses who can because :
– You have the required material
– You have the time to play
– You can play for free
– You don’t have to provide any RL verification.
What people ask here isn’t to DELETE all unverified but to stop the ability to create an unverified account. You’re here, you signed up to be here for free lifetime and your account is safe.
We will be 2 millions before the end of 2006 and LindenLab can’t handle the load… the system is scalable, but not enough …
So we say *no more* unverified account, got enough, too much trouble.
You’re asking to stop “generalisation” about the unverified, but you “generalise” your case.
Yes, not everyone can provide a CC card or pay every month.
But a lot of griefer are unverified and we can’t do anything against them. Unless we decide to ban all unverified from our land. You don’t want that too, right ?
You have no idea how annoying it is to spend 8h in a row in your private island, banning the same RL guy again and again and again because he can create unverified account with a false email address… I just don’t have time to do that !
It cost me time, it cost me money, it’s extremly annoying.
I already spend too much time in secondlife. I never have enough time to do everything in a single day, it’s stressing, it’s bad for health, i don’t sleep enough.
Do you think earning enough money to be able to provide good content and service in secondlife is a 7h/d job ? no, it’s 12, 15h/day. Secondlife don’t shutdown when you sleep, eat, get a RL life, …
Read all sucess story, they work like crazy and/or are highly skilled.
I could write a whole book about thoses problems but… enough. going to sleep now (14h of SL today) 😀
I agree that a limit on new accounts is in order. Also, when I spend a lot of money each month on my land and then I cant even get onto it, I get pissed off.
In regards to the earlier comment about limiting accounts to 5 per IP, all well and good, except it’s not that hard to get a different IP address. Cable users can do it just by turning off their modem over night and turning it back on as long as they don’t have a static IP.
This suggestion, while well meaning, is not a viable solution.
@Interfect… Sounds like your issues are with your parents, not Linden Labs.
Dammit! I’m sick of all the people who bitch about the cost of SL! Two points that none of you brain-deads seem to be catching:
1) Getting verified DOES NOT mean that you have to spend money to play! You can put your CC info on file AND NEVER SPEND A F*ING DIME (or Peso, Rupee, Drachma, Euro…whatever). Yes, LL needs to find more ways to get people verified as CC validation does not work in every area, but that is a technical problem that can be overcome, if the community demands it.
2) Five or ten or twenty dollars a month is too much? How the hell do you have a computer capable of running SL, much less an Internet connection fast enough? You make conscious decision every month what to do with your paycheck, allowance, etc. You can choose to spend your money on SL, or take your girlfriend out for a lovely McDonalds dinner.
Get this through your thick skulls…Second Life is NOT an entitlement! You have no more “right” to play SL than you do to get a top of the line computer for free. Linden Labs is a privately held company, and they can choose to put any pricing model they wish in place. If your computer sucks and can’t run SL, are they required to provide you with one that will? No! You either have the means to play or you do not, technologically and financially. This is the same for EVERY OTHER VIRTUAL WORLD/GAMING PLATFORM OUT THERE! EVE Online charges…WoW charges…There.com charges.
The paying customers (premium accounts and verifieds, in that order of importance), on the other hand, DO have a reasonable expectation of services provided. As the people who fuel the SL economy (and reciprocally keep LL in business), WE have a right to expect LL to provide us with a entertainment platform that WORKS, and the support channels that can assist us when it doesn’t. Any steps in that direction, i.e. limiting access to support, reducing abilities of players to grief, etc. are absolutely right and fair.
BM DEAL WITH IT!
You talk a good fight but your have too many holes in your remark.
Your remarks are too flakey and all over. So if people misunderstand your thoughts that is why.
Are you Pro or against Freeloading accounts? Its unclear.
The Point people are making is Credit Cards help provents abuse in most cases. Not to speak of Under 18 getting intot he adult game. More people then YOU THINK have better understanding then how these freeloading accounts have kill the game. They don`t put money in the game NOR DO THEY BUY MONEY!
Oh well better luck next time.
Kerunx – sorry, your argument – to me – is moot. I’ve already dealt with idiots coming back again and again and again on America Online. That issue doubled when they went to free – and they did it to get with the times. Deal with it. There ARE others out there that WILL contribute something to Second Life. I’m attempting to be one of them myself.
Your argument is also null and void in that you stated that no one is asking for free accounts to be deleted – reread the comments. Someone wants free accounts set to a trial period – which boils down to them being removed or locked down if verification isn’t given. Next please?
Melnitz – want my real life address so I can introduce you to the harsh realities of life? I’ll repost my ENTRIE posts from earlier since you so BLINDLY skipped right over it and missed the bloody point – and missed why your argument is invalid when p[resented with Life itself:
“I’m a Free Account – (hey look at this, you actually get to look me up in world now. Harassing IMs WILL be dealt with. Bans from areas that are normally open to everyone will be dealt with. I am vindictive when it somes to this s**t….) Solar Legion, I work UNPAID BY THE OWNER at The Ark in Fur Nation Prime. I don’t see much in tips at all, in fact my recent purchase of an Inverted Tiger Avatar from Lost Forest Creatures took almost all of my tip money …. and the little that I had been given by one of my best friends to start out with. I don’t go around causing all sorts of problems with Bomb dropping guns, cagers, Orbiters, or any sort of annoying weapon. The only time you’ll see a particle effect is when someone actually asks to see a poofer that I MIGHT have on hand. I go to Help Island Public and help anyone I can …. I have NO reason to buy OR rent land at this time, I see NO reason to have to PAY for customer service.
In essence the life I lead in Second Life mirrors my own to a point. some things cannot translate over so I’ll tell you them, and perhaps this will explain why I am so adamant in this:
I live in a small town in New Jersey. This is the sort of town that doesn’t abide by all the federal laws all the time – for example there’s a racist undercurrent to the place. There’s also a lot of resentment to anyone that has even the slightest disability. I know … I’m disabled. I have a condition called Ocular Albinisim. for those of you that don’t know what that is …. My eyes are VERY light sensitive. I wear sunglasses no matter where I go, no matter the lighting (excluding night lights). In addition to this my sight is so bad that I canot see my own feet. top it all off with a USELESS Commision for the Blind and Visually Impaired (worst in the US) that will not tell you a bloody thing if you don’t already know it.
I am on SSI – and thanks to the state’s way of seeing it I’m not allowed to get it directly. it is handled by my father (note, I am 23). I have no credit, no way at this time to get a job (gotta love this place), and for want of a better way of putting it don’t see much of the money that comes in. In fact I’m lucky to see any of it at all. To tell you how much of it I see, I see MAYBE $20 every three months – and that’s not always the case.
so, as you can see I have every right to tel anyone with a Premium account, or that owns their own SIM off for their attitude with Free accounts. I’m not here to make LL richer, I’m not here to make SIM or Shop owners richer …. I’m here for the boost to my creativity that this has been. Nothing more and nothing less. to further this I have to actually EARN Lindens. I don’t sell anything, I have yet to find a place that’ll hire me (who needs a bartender when everyone can just go out and get the items themselves?).
You’ll pardon me if the attitude directed at free accounts is a vexation.”
and now for Carmen, whom I apparently missed:
Newsflash – AOL HAS free accounts.
Another newsflash – Second Life stopped being a “Commercial” product the instant they allowed Basic (free) accounts.
I’m getting very tired of having to cover the same ground over and over again. It seems to me that some people, no matter how many times you thrust reality into their faces, they simply refuse to see …. If you’re not on a free or unverified account and you’re not one of those that struggles every month just to make ends meet – or for that matter one of the ones like myself who litterally cannot pay for a Premium Account …. You don’t have any right whatsoever to make any sort of comment on the free system.
By the by, I’d be willing to bet that over half of the problem accounts in world right now are alternates of some paying member somewhere that just got bored. Paranoid thinking? No – common sense.
Oh yes, and SLL – sorry – your argument was null and void the second you came up with it. Please, put more thought into your bashing before you make the attempt to post. Thanks, bye.
Well change is one thing that Linden needs for sure. It is quite understandable that with such a mass growth in a short period of time that alot of the recent headaches have come into play. I support free accounts but think that there should be some type of limitation on them and not not in use after “x” amount of time should be deleted.
I don’t mind paying the annual fee for premium service nor tier charges and island fees as long as the support system helps resolve matters in a timely manner. For those that don’t like paying for premium services to remove restrictions free accounts should have, well beggers cannot be choosers so STOP complaining about something that cost you nothing. As for things that you buy “in world” that is by and between you and whom evere it is that your purchasing from and has nothing to do with Linden or anyone else in 2nd Life.
I think that the pricing for islands is a bit steep considering the hundreds of dollars a month that Linden charges in “maintnence” fees. And I would be willing to overlook the steep pricing if it didn’t take so long to get an island up and running. For example, I paid for mine 3.5 weeks ago and have yet to be able to acualy use my island since it is still in a pending status. I don’t think for the amount of money to purchase plus the high monthly fees that it should take this long to get things up and running.
Kind Regards,
Marcus T.
1) It occurs to me that the demand for help in SL probably follows a sort of U shaped curve as citizens “age”. The noobs are going to need a lot of help with very basic, repetitive questions. Then, as they gain some experience, they won’t need much help at all. As they become landowners, sim owners, etc., they will need a whole “higher” level of help — one requiring a much higher level of expertise. It would be a shame and a disservice to our world and to the noobs to deny or limit basic level help services to new citizens, virtually all of whom will be free accounts. Yes, there are the griefers who abuse the free account privilege … but there are also people all over the world with free accounts who contribute to the richness and diversity of our world just by being there and who truly would face hardships (or just technical difficulties) were they to upgrade. So, perhaps this suggests some division of help services into “Basic” and “Advanced” or some such. “Basic” could be handled in large part by volunteers, “Advanced” by paid staff.
I love the “green dot” idea — and abuse of same could be handled by a feedback mechanism that asked the “helpee” (?) to rate the helper as “Helpful”, “Neutral” or “Malicious.” Of course, multiple “Malicious” ratings could switch off the Helper’s green dot.
Consider the impact on new citizens were they able to quickly enter into a conversation that provides the help they need to navigate and function in our world. They would be interacting with our citizens who truly want to be helpful and welcoming and thus would learn what “good citizenship” in SL means. We “get the spirit” of a place in conversation, not just observation.
2) Like several other posters, I’ve spent a lot of L$ as a noob/free. However, I’ve heard there is this thing called RL (!?!) where Linden Labs actually lives and where things actually cost RL money. (And where, please remember, LL must someday turn a significant profit or our world will become a “404 Cannot Find Server Error.”) Perhaps a way of funding, at least partially, an advanced level help service as well as the hardware and IT support to handle our ever growing world would be to two-tier the Linden Exchange … Premium’s could enjoy a “discount” exchange rate while Basics would pay a small percentage higher. This would get around the technical complexities and political difficulties of implementing a sales tax — it would also be one more incentive to upgrade. The impact on a L$1000 purchase would be pennies, but those pennies could add up to a substantial sum.
It never ceases to amaze me how many people who comment and play SL seem to think the metaverse is a free lunch. All their fun and games and gripes are nothing if in the end, SL cannot become self-sufficient.
I am also aghast at these arguments for everyone receiving equal voices. When people say that, are they considering that the voice (and vote) of a griefer is equivalent to that of their own? SL should be a meritocracy, where a combination of verification, reputation, and personal investment add up to the weight of one’s voice. For more info, I suggest reading the E2.com article on Online Community Dynamics. It goes into why user levels are a must.
@SLL… Your rant is misdirected. If I understand your incoherent babbling, I think we agree.
Perhaps next time try reading the entire comment, not skimming it. It will avoid embarrassing responses like the one you just made.
I am on a “free” account. In the two weeks I have played, I have purchased $60 worth of Lindens and spent nearly all of it on clothing in game. Limiting free accounts is very short-sighted, as a major draw of SL *is* that it is free-to-play. But if you want to look good, you will eventually become part of the economy, one way or the other. Suggesting that “free” accounts be restricted on what they can wear, as someone above suggested, is emphatically stupid. Dressing up, looking good, hanging out…..this is what drives the SL economy. Restrict that and those “free” accounts will leave and take their credit cards with them.
Walmart doesn’t charge admission, after all. It’s bad for business. Keep the SL door open and people will spend their money.
Wow, wish I had seen that post asking for suggestions on improving customer service cause I’ve got a hell of a suggestion:
How about if during billing dispute cases you DON’T automatically assume the customer is in the wrong, you DON’T make THEM dig through page after page of account history after repeatedly blowing them off and then after confiscating their 4096m of land you DON’T blow them off again and not make things right after they FORCE you to face the evidence that you were in the wrong and that any billing discrepencies were your fault because your system billed them incorrectly?
Way I see it I’m still owed 4096m of land but hey, I’m just a subscribed customer and Linden Labs has all the rights and I have none.
In response to Boss Melnitz…
“1) Getting verified DOES NOT mean that you have to spend money to play! You can put your CC info on file AND NEVER SPEND A F*ING DIME (or Peso, Rupee, Drachma, Euro…whatever). Yes, LL needs to find more ways to get people verified as CC validation does not work in every area, but that is a technical problem that can be overcome, if the community demands it.”
I don’t think anyone is against additional, more global methods of identity verification. If we can have the benefits of current unverified accounts(global appeal) with some of the safeguards of identify verifications(less griefing, easier to prosecute law-breakers), without the limitations of credit cards(only a percentage of people who are of age to play actually -have- credit cards), then great. Perfect. Ideal solution; everyone wins. Whatever stupidity you’re witnessing is your own construct, nobody else’s.
“2) Five or ten or twenty dollars a month is too much? How the hell do you have a computer capable of running SL, much less an Internet connection fast enough? You make conscious decision every month what to do with your paycheck, allowance, etc. You can choose to spend your money on SL, or take your girlfriend out for a lovely McDonalds dinner.”
If your brain cannot comprehend a situation in which someone could have the internet and a computer and yet not be able to afford such luxuries as monthly fees on a social internet client, then you are either truly blessed or sadly uneducated, because you clearly are neither afflicted with any kind of disability, nor have you attended university as a student on a budget.
Use a little imagination. Money does not grow on trees. Just because it is within your budget to spend money in this fashion does not make in any kind of logical sense an argument toward -everyone- being so well off. You’re right, five dollars a month isn’t much. But it sure is a lot when you really don’t have five dollars a month to spare.
And while you’re spitting on university students(as a common example of someone who would easily have access to highspeed internet(dorm provided) as well as a computer(purchased or gifted out of necessity or provided by the university as well) while really having an extremely limited amount of money), as well as disabled people(who may have the internet and a computer due to the generosity of others, as I have the distinct feeling that disability checks are pretty much meant to be life-sustaining, period), nevermind the countless other unique and rarer situations that might leave someone without spare money(if you actually believe this is rare, move out of your parents house), I’m going to go ahead and assert that you have, in one post, pretty much summed up -exactly- why these arguments are entirely illogical, ill thought out, and entirely subject to a lack of observable critical thinking.
I’m sorry, that’s just how I see it.
“Get this through your thick skulls…Second Life is NOT an entitlement! You have no more “right” to play SL than you do to get a top of the line computer for free. Linden Labs is a privately held company, and they can choose to put any pricing model they wish in place. If your computer sucks and can’t run SL, are they required to provide you with one that will? No! You either have the means to play or you do not, technologically and financially. This is the same for EVERY OTHER VIRTUAL WORLD/GAMING PLATFORM OUT THERE! EVE Online charges…WoW charges…There.com charges.”
I hate to break it to you, but strictly speaking? Like, in terms of the End User Agreement that you checked ‘yes’ on when you signed up for Second Life? You don’t have any rights either. The only people who do have rights are Linden Labs and their shareholders, and I’d like to take this opportunity to burst the little bubble that you’ve formed above your head that suggests you seem to think you are actually entitled to a say any more than a ‘free’ citizen. You aren’t. Read the EUL if you don’t believe me. I have a feeling that upon reading this you know that I’m right.
No, what you are actually saying is that, by merit of having paid, you -think- you should have more of a say than people who didn’t. It is not based on fact at all, however you might wish to imply otherwise.
Now, you’re entitled to that belief, and though I find it a bit of a disturbing mentality myself, I can understand where you’re coming from. If someone doesn’t contribute, they have no right to be there. And that’s fine, I agree. People who don’t contribute, people who are a negative influence on Second Life should be removed.
However, your definition of contribution is sorely lacking. You seem to separate the wheat from the chaff by merit of throwing money down, and I can assure you that there are plenty of nasty people with money. Money does not making you a contributing citizen. Serial killers pay taxes, and paid accounts have been terminated for griefing and other infractions.
Second Life is a social game with an economy. It is not -just- an economy. The economy is what drives the growth of the platform; but the spiritual growth of Second Life lies with its citizens – all of its citizens – and not in its economy. We all make up Second Life, we all make it what it is today. And while I’m all for routing out the griefers and the problems; asserting that the best way to do that is to stop allowing people to access Second Life without paying is akin to exterminating all raccoons because you generally associate them with knocking over your garbage can at night. It might solve the mess in your driveway but it will have much more distant repercussions than you seem to be willing to fathom.
Now, your first and second comments suggested to me that you’re open to either as a possible solution, and I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt on that. That your second attempt at enlightening the masses was as ludicrous as it was is probably the result of anger, and not much else. I can understand that.
Everybody deserves a say. Why? Because we’re all here, we’re all taking part, we’re all contributing, if not monetarily. SLL said something to the effect of ‘you’re allowing griefers to have a say by allowing free accounts to have a say,’ to which I will reply, you’re allowing griefers and people uneducated on the gritty details of how to run an economy and an online world by allowing -anyone- to have a say, regardless of their account status. Having money does not make you an expert on anything. There are some incredibly intelligent, intuitive, and educated people with free accounts. I know for a fact that’s true. Look at it from that perspective.
Do you really think that Linden Labs is going to take bad advice? Do you really think that allowing griefers a chance to speak is going to ruin your game? As much as we’d all like it to be, it’s not a democracy, none of our voices matters beyond the sound judgment from which they come. Anything less will be cast aside by LL, in so much as they feel it’s in their best interests.
So no, I see no fault in allowing -everyone- to have a say. Apart from your own injured hubris, I suppose.
Harle Armistice – I think you might want to reread my posts. Honestly, I wasn’t trying to bash unverifieds at all. I actually stated that I reserved my call on that one. All I said was that people who are paying $100s of dollars a month have a different level of concern then if you are barely ekking out an existence on tips, etc.
That is not a bash on those who are playing that way at all. However if I for example purchase an island at $1675 dollars and am paying close to $300 a month, it would seem that I have more need for concern (that’s a lot of money, at least to me) then someone generating maybe a few USD in L$ a week (enough to buy clothes, etc.).
All I said to JAT was that I suggested having patience with people on the blog, it makes life easier; understanding that people are concerned and some have large investments made into this system called SL. I did ask the question about money because it seemed a little lopsided at the time, though I can understand JAT’s answer to my question about internet connection.
The current target for people seems to be unverified accounts, this probably partly arises that SL seems to have been becoming more unstable since approximately LL opened up unverifieds. This could be pure coincidence, that is possible, I don’t know. As I said I’m not bashing unverifieds, I’m sure there are griefers that are verified out there as well. Personally, I would probably be in favor of some kind of verification, be that faxed, mailed, credit card, etc. Just for security purposes, but I understand that having verification will cause issue for some, so that is an area that LL needs to look into.
I think I have had a misunderstanding as to what a basic account is. The “free-loaders” I refer to are the ones with no payment verification. I like to do the lucky chair hops for fun and I run into lots of people who complain that some chairs and stores are only for payment verified people, ie. people they know have money to spend in the stores. I rent, although I can buy land, and pay almost $L2000 a week for a very nice house on the water. I also spend a lot of money at stores, in addition to chair hopping. I like to chair hop more for the “win” than the prizes, LOL. If a person has a CC on file, whether they use it or not, shows that they are aware of the fact that SL is not a free ride, that they need to contribute, either money or talent to the game. Right now, my contribution is money. When SL gets to the point where I can actually count on being able to log in and move around, do things and such, then I will buy land and build.
I also get tired of people who think that because they are in SL they can have access to my home, whether I like it or not. I have to set the land to “group access” to keep every person who flies by from landing and making themselves at home in my house. When I have the group access off, so I can have non-group members visit, I spend a lot of time telling trespassers that it is private property and to please leave. Most do leave, but many get rather rude about how they have a “right” to go where they want to in SL. I always check profiles and so far ALL of the rude people who think they have a right to come in my home at will have been unverified accounts. The people who do most of the griefing and hacking, the ones that aren’t Lindens or their friends, are also unverified accounts.
So, my corrected plea to the Lindens is, make the unverified account a trial period. If they don’t verify, toss them out after the trial period is over. And my apologies to the basics who are verified. I didn’t mean you, as it turns out, I meant the unverified accounts, and confused the terms. When I first started in SL, this time, I had an unverified account for about 5 days. Then when I found that it was much improved from the SL I was on way back when it was about two islands and could be done with dial-up (yeah, I know, the Stone Age), I changed to a verified account, which also is a premium one.
And Harle, the only thing I want to hear a griefer say is “Goodbye!!”. Their idea of fun is to ruin the SL experience for someone else. You might think they have a “right” to do that, but I doubt that any one who has had to deal with griefers would agree with you.
Rest assured, Zari, I wasn’t replying to you. 😉
My understanding, having worked with sim owners, is that sim owners actually do already get preferential treatment(and they should, because their investment is the grid, literally). They can get quicker support at times when other people can’t, when it pertains to their sim. If their sim goes down, it affects everyone. Or everyone who goes there, at least.
Everyone cares about SL to varying degrees. I’m absolutely positive that sim owners care a lot about their sims and, by proxy, the course of Second Life. It is a large investment(and getting larger all the time). I don’t think that I implied that their concerns are invalid. They aren’t. And they (often) have an insight into things that people who have no experience with sim rental. I give a fair bit of personal weight to the wants and needs of private sim owners, because I respect what they’re doing, and usually these are people who have been around for a long time and generally have a fair bit of experience with Second Life. That’s my opinion on the situation.
Which brings me to my next point… sims and their owners don’t materialize out of nowhere. I think that people who buy sims within their first few weeks on Second Life(and aren’t of some corporate interest) are a dire minority in Second Life. Everyone starts somewhere. People’s opinions should be weighed based purely on their experience with what they’re saying. I can guarantee you that if some idiot sim owner starts giving Linden Labs bad advice, they’re going to ignore him the same as anyone else. People’s opinions should not be weighed on such trivial differences as the amount of money they spend on the game that month. People aren’t paying for intellect or critical thinking, here. They’re paying for money to buy wigs and coats for a virtual character.
I mean, you could start a voting system in the US where you buy your votes, but I don’t think anyone would agree with that. And no, SL isn’t a democracy. I’ve listened to Linden Labs talk about their ideals with Second Life, and they’re perfect. I have a feeling they don’t want to segregate folks much either; they’re just running low on options here with the scale of growth the world is experiencing.
My point is to urge a different solution.
I personally -love- the idea of allowing numerous types of verification, but unfortunately, that can make the verification process rather difficult for Linden Labs, and it could produce a massive workload on its own for them.
Responding to Enticing Dancer…
“And Harle, the only thing I want to hear a griefer say is “Goodbye!!”. Their idea of fun is to ruin the SL experience for someone else. You might think they have a “right” to do that, but I doubt that any one who has had to deal with griefers would agree with you.”
I.. what? I definitely never said that. Why would you even come to that conclusion? 😛
I’m against griefing like the most of people. I just don’t want a huge group of people to be punished based on the actions of a few. Griefers have the “right” to abide by the Terms of Service or get out. I’m sorry if I gave any other impression. 😛
BM
Your letters should be BS not BM………
Nice try! Learn to write in a matter which people can understand…..
The comments here: tl;dr.
A lot of the bickering here reminds me of a lot of the bickering that happened with any change.
It’s all just Teapot [Feces]storm, and nothing more.
We know that some will leave and take their money with them. That’s okay, that’s part of business, knowing we cannot satisfy everyone, no matter how hard we try.
We know that others will stay, and actually pay or pay more. That’s fine.
We know that some of those who leave will be back a few months down the road, picking up where they left off.
I remember Second Life before you could get a free account. You had to pay that $10 entry fee to get in.
I’d have to say that I’d like to see it come back.
I bought both of my accounts. I got nothing from LL after they rolled out free Basic by way of saying, “Thanks for being a loyal member. Here’s (an arbitrary amount of Linden Dollars). While it’s not much, we’d like to show a token of appreciation for joining us so early.”
I remember Second Life when you used to get a referral bonus for sending people to the game.
I also remember that bonus being nerfed.
I remember positive AND NEGATIVE ratings.
I also remember the dung-stained teapots that followed the change of all of those above (wtf, no neg-rates? I’M LEAVING! no referral bonus? I’M LEAVING!).
I think all you all can do is just sit back, and see what happens.
(also, how cute: Hidden smiley face just under the RSS links here.)
It could be nice if you (including JAT) could post your comments with your ingame name :
– It’s free of charge
– It doesn’t require a CC
– I’m not anonymous and i put my ingame reputation in this silly Blog.
On some serious usenet group, any comment not posted with your real name, or a well identified name is considered as void and null, sent to trash.
I understand you can’t always be “verified” ingame because of some RL issue, but you can post here using your ingame name without problems.
Be polite, not a coward. Assume your responsability when whining on the blog : post with your ingame name.
just a eeency weeency thought, Robin….
One thing that could really use a change (specific to these meetings) is the medium on which to have them.
SL gets really bogged, and isn’t an area limited to 40 characters?
A simple, textual, moderated format would be much more productive, and the results more professional.
It’s not hard to do. It’s been done on IRC adn other telnet platforms for years.
The Lindens have the floor, the people send you messages asking a question or a place in the queue, either way. The former method would be more stramlined than the latter, but they would both work to really improve the discussion.
If the issue is you HAVE to have it in SL… why not make it a moderated temporary chennel, like LIVEHELP is… where the number of attendees is not limited by location or lag in one area?
Just my 2c.
Kerunix – I gave my in game name in a post already. find it. I’m not going to include it in each and every post I make for one reason: I am NOT going to have thirty people IMing me to flame or bash me, and I WILL NOT have said people mapping me just to cause trouble …. and let’s face it, Human Nature being what it is that is EXACTLY what would happen.
and to you enticing, sure I’ll verify – give me your credit card number.
That aside, if you’re of the mind that free, unverified accounts should only be a trial period – if you’re of the mind that free, unverified AND/OR Verified accounts should have limited inventories/attachments/ etc ….. Please go into your kitchen and introduce your hand to the nearest sharp implement.
My Philosophy? If you’re not in a situation where these proposed limitations would affect you (and I don’t mean better performance) then you don’t have the right to suggest them at all.
actually I believe you don’t have a right to LIFE if you feel that way about the less fortunate. I’m STILL unverified and I’m not a griefer.
Those wanting to know who I am ….
Come to The Ark in Fur Nation Prime – I’m there rioght now, sitting behind the bar, attempting to earn some tips so I can support the vendors and continue getting what I may need for my own OFFLINE projects (novels and the like.)
I don’t call for the restriction of content. I point out the inherent contradiction, however, in allowing all the push stuff — the guns, the aggressive security orbs, the bombs — which cause 75 percent of the griefing incidents — and then complaining about an overloaded abuse reports system.
Either you deprecate pushing stuff and stop huffing and puffing about the few elevators there are in SL, and stop working about the income of a few oldbies with lucrative security orb businesses, and stop trying to complete even subliminally with MMORPGs — and unload your overloaded griefing system — or you legalize everything and stop processing griefing reports about shooting.
If someone is shot, well, too bad. It’s the Wild West. Get out of town, put on a bullet-proof vest, shoot back. If shooting were legal, most people would protect their property against griefing by shooting back and ploying the little name-number kiddies back to the welcome areas from whence they came.
An arms race and intolerable poor quality of life? Yes. But then, have the courage of your convictions.
I don’t see that the vast majority of users of Second Life are shooters. I don’t think that just because a handful of people like Gigs or Spin or whomever enjoys shooting games and have lucrative weapons businesses that we have to warp our entire society in SL around them.
So SL could fork in either direction — legalize all shooting and stop fussing about it so that grown-ups bothered by griefing jerks can shoot back without reprisal, or get rid of guns and stop enabling the making and selling of them. This is a virtual world, where unlike RL, you can instantly cut off the making and selling of weapons (please PLEASE don’t tell me about the 17 elevators that need “push” in SL and would be destroying the creativity of elevator-makers if the pushes were deprecated — and please don’t tell me about creativity in general when in fact this is destruction — griefing, harassment, and even actual loss of property, because one of the favourite things these aggressive types do is teleporthome, which makes some people’s games crash and they can’t save what they were making or holding, or else they store all their hugely-high prim guns all at once causing builds to displace.
Desmond, I don’t think you got the concept here. YOU are supposed to be doing the customer service because these are YOUR customers, not Linden Labs’ customers. Or did you think you could just offload the unpleasant parts, like everything except their payment?
Prok, when you’re able to put together an argument based on hard facts that are gathered from visinting EVERY place in world – then come back with that suggestion. Until then don’t pretend to know what you are talking about.
The fact is that most weapons are NOT push weapons (matter of fact I’ve noticed that a good deal of the arms makers supply damage only – which only works with an RCS or in a damage enabled zone – that’s one argument down the tubes). The worst of the Push weapons are freebies found all over Second Life – these are the same weapons that one-hit in damage enabled zones.
If you have a problem with weapons then you have a problem with the real world as well. Second Life was supposed to – from al I’ve read – mirror the real world.
to an extent anyway. It also gives Rople Players an added element – the visual aspect.
For some, take away the weapons and you’ve just removed an aspect of play.
Sorry, this world of Second Life is for everyone (Griefers aside) – time to open your eyes and accept that. It’s also time to accept that it means you won’t be able to ‘outlaw’ weapons – short of bringing the government in.
Blasted typos … Role Players is what I meant.
How I wish my cynicism had been unfounded.
The moment I read that volunteers should not be the first line of support, my inner alarm bell rang, thinking ‘Uh oh.. another way to make money out of us!’….
I continued reading, paragraphs and paragraphs, then right there near the end… Bingo! Access to Live Help only available to premium accounts..!!! 😦
I had read other blogs with people saying the Lindens are now just trying to rake in maximum dollars to boost the value of the company prior to sale, and had really hoped this was untrue. But a change that requires RL money before Live Help is available is a very mercenary action I think. Especially if the volunteer service is suspended!
Why not allow volunteers to maintain a free Volunteer Live Help service in parallel if they are inclined to do so? Perhaps because they might syphon off a source of new revenue?
@Harle… Your arguments do not change the fact that SL IS NOT AN ENTITLEMENT! You do not have a right to play SL regardless of your financial, physical, or educational status. You have the means to play, or you don’t. That simple. Period.
People have to get over this “entitlement mentality” wherein they think just because something is fun means they have a right to it. This is not a basic need such a food or medical care. It’s a flippin’ game! You are correct in your assumption that I am not disabled, nor have I been a student in a very long time, however that doesn’t change the fact that SL is not some sort of social service.
If you believe in the “rights” of people to play, why not quit barking at me and do something about it? Why not start a charitable organization where people can gift memberships to those who can’t pay for one themselves? Maybe you think access to SL is that important, and maybe you don’t, however I always have and always will subscribe to the school of thought that SL is a game, not a social service, and it is certainly not the responsibility of LL or those who fuel the SL economy to bear the burden of the have-nots.
Melnitz – kindly crawl back under the rock from whence you came. Your mentality and argument was nulified the very moment LL made the game open to everyone and made their intention to KEEP it open clear.
if you’re so unhappy seeing all the people here that contibute – even on free and unverified accounts – leave.
Or better yet, sit down, shut up, and get back to playing this game. After all, that’s what it is isn’t it?
If it’s just a game then what do you care?
Saying that many griefers are non-paying SLifers is not the same as saying all non-paying SLifers are griefers. As for the argument that to some people in the world $10 is a week’s worth of food, I’ve heard it before, but never from one of these mythical people, starving in front of a brand new top spec computer. It’s always made by someone in the west who is a bit strapped for cash. The only reason users expect SL to be free is because it has been. There is nothing inherent in SL that means it should be free any more than any other service or product. Is there?
Hate to break it to you Albion but the mentality is the same.
as to the rest of your argument, sorry – but if you’ve read any of the posts here and comprehended them you’d have proof to the contrary.
again, until you live the way soem of us do – you don’t have to right to make that sort of judgement.
“Just a thought”, you need to brush that chip off your shoulder and do something to make yourself useful (and make some money). You can write full English sentences, have ‘Net access, and apparently have copious spare time, so at a bare minimum, you should have no problem doing journalism, PR, writing for a living, make a blog and use Google adWords to make money on it, or any of a hundred other things. There’s an entire planet full of money out there, and it requires only the most basic effort to acquire some of it. I know disabled people far worse off than you who’ve worked their asses off anyway.
Or, perhaps you prefer whining about how you can’t do anything to actually going ahead and doing something. You need to decide whether you would prefer to be useless and pitiful all your miserable life, or to do something and become competent and respected. Chosing to do nothing is chosing to be useless.
Thanks for all the comments. I can’t reply to all of them, but we’ll talk about your concerns at the meetings. One thing I do want to point out though, is in response to a concern raised by RoseLinUK. We have no intention of limiting Live Help to premiums only. We may limit Live *Chat* (a new web-based service) to premiums, however.
I’ve got a full list of attendees for the meetings. Once I get everyone sorted out based on time availabilities, I’ll contact you with a meeting time.