I’m spontaneously posting this to address some frequently-asked concerns that came up recently:
- Blog timestamps have been adjusted so it now adjusts for Daylight Savings Time, as Stephanie Draper and more noticed. We’re now correctly displayed in SLT (Second Life Time). Thanx guys!
- Many of you have questions about how we plan our release schedule, downtime, why we have to bring the whole grid down, etc. That’s what this blog is here for to answer—Joe Linden posted “Releases: past, present, and future” and Kelly Linden posted “Anatomy of a Second Life Update”. We’ll continue to accumulate useful info like this over time on our blog. Please feel free to search in different ways on the right sidebar: a standard search bar, by author, by category, and monthly archives too.
- Many questions abound about comment moderation: not too long ago, beez Linden posted “About the blog and comments.”. Followup from that post is we got a good workout today moderating this thread, with 150+ comments and growing. We noticed that there were many duplicate kinds of comments like “When’s Second Life going to be back up again?” which are certainly heartfelt—we want the grid open ASAP for you too—but the dupes don’t add to the conversation.
So redundant comments have been removed, as have spamming and trolling remarks, because they’re unhelpful—plus, we’ve already heard them many times before and we understand! But constructive criticism that positively contributes: helping yourself, your fellow Residents, and us at Linden Lab, is warmly welcomed. 🙂 Please be good to each other, and let’s take inspiration from Robert Scoble’s “Family Room” analogy. - Along the same lines, as this blog grows, we’re going to continue to investigate possibilities for allowing Residents to contribute more here, and make it easier to follow comments.
I know about the fears that this blog is one-way, but if it were, I wouldn’t be typing this now. I do it because we receive feedback in so many ways: blog comments, blog posts—be sure to check out World of SL—emails, forum threads (both the official and Resident-run ones), IMs, being inworld, and just basically anything to do with Second Life. We hear ya, and we’re communicating and getting better at it. - Finally, as much as we love to help out, this blog isn’t for tech support—we already have a special place, our Support page. Please go there if you need assistance… please don’t leave support-related comments here, they’ll get lost like puppies without good homes. 😦
T’care and have a safe Wednesday… enjoy Second Life 1.12! 😀
Official Second Life Blog 
While I appreciate the information that is being shred in the blogs, there are two issues that make the blog less useful than the forums:
1. The blog is linear, yes, I know, I can search and filter on categories and authors, but this is still les udeful than the tree strcuture of the Forums.
2. Resis cannot start a blog topic, and this is the biggie. For example, the whole mess with the unwarranted suspension of Kin Keiko, would, I think, not have be resolved as quickly or as favorably without the outrcy in the forums. Where are we going to be bale to post our cicerns weher the Lindens (and everyone else) can see them? Yes, there are other Froums out there, but none (so far) is the official “anointed” forum. If the Blod is going to truly replace the forums, we need this capability, BEFORE you start closing forums.
Thank you!
(p.s and we cant edit our comments either!!)
Most people know I’m not a fan of the blog, and like the poster before me would prefer to have the forums retained because their usefulness far outweighs any Linden-invented negatives.
But as to the point of this post… as a UK player, I want to read times here in my own timezone (GMT), and there doesn’t appear to be the facility to change that per user.
It’s not the end of the world having to add 8 hours to each timestamp, but it’s yet another inconvenience that makes the blog less useful and convenient than the forums, on top of the many other issues already raised.
Will Linden Lab listen to the community – who are the ones who are really keeping this dream of Philip’s alive, not the vulture capitalists who only threw money at Linden Lab in the hope of making a profit – or just steamroll on and ignore the overwhelming evidence and cries to keep the forums?
Lewis
Lewis
On one hand, I think the blog is a bit one way, on the other hand, the information that is released in the blog entries is compelling and a far cry from the one liners that you’d find in the forum.
The *blog* format compels a more detailed writeup and the benefits of the detailed writeups are quite clear.
I have gotten many a useful information bits from Residents as well via the Forums..
So, I like the Blog format for Linden to resident related content. And, I like the forums for resident to resident related content.
Blogs tend to be less spontanious, more well written, and more detailed information.
Forums tend to be more spontanious and more inclusive as far as content creation.
Testing cause last time I tried thecomment never made it.
I truly like this blog. I prefer reading the Linden information and updates first and then reading comments, if I have time or if I want to. I don’t have to search through several posts to find what you were looking for.
I’m not a big fan of the forums, because there were soo many topics and soo many threads, it just became very confusing for me. (maybe I’m just a dummy, but whatever), I’m sure I’m not the only one that feels this way. I like reading one thing instead of trying to wade through about 100 topics, and then try to remember what I posted to. I know you can subscribe, but then you get an email anytime someone posts to it. And I can read the 4 or 5 blogs at one time and I have all the information I need.
There should be a preview of your post before you submit it though. And if it were possible a spell checker. Nothing weakens a point better than a bunch of typos or spelling errors. I tend not to take a post as seriously when I see all that. It tells me the person just wrote their post in haste and did not even proofread it for errors. Proofreading also accomplishes something else. It allowes the poster to read their post and perhaps change things that they said in haste, thus moderating their own posts.
Ever gotten really mad at someone and written them a letter/email, and just really blasted them and let them have it, then after reading and re reading it you never send it? But you felt better afterward anyway?….that is what people need to do with their postings. Read them carefully before sending them. Not only for spelling and typos, but for content as well.
The forums, from what I’ve encountered, are just a place for a bunch of self absorbed people to whine and complain, or people that think they know it all to say look at me, look at me…I’m really smart. All the griping and complaining, and tearing each other apart does not contribute to the solution to problems, and I’ll bet that the folks at Linden Labs do not make any decisions based on public outcries, they make them on well thought out, intelligent requests. I’m sure they get a lot of good laughs from some of the postings to the forum though.
Didn’t mean to run on like this, but until you’re a Linden and you are walking in their shoes, don’t criticize their decisions or say they don’t care. This blog has given me more useful information, and has given me a sense of belonging more than the forums ever did or ever will.
I am severaly opposed to the idea of editing out “duplicate responses” from different individuals. While I can see some validity in removing an obviously off-topic or trolling comment, eliminating multiple voices that all have the same complaint is censoring the fact that such a wide-spread sentiment exists in oppostition to your plans.
Consider this obviously fictional scenario:
A Linden states that in the next release, all avatars will get Ruthed, and residents will no longer be able to select their gender or appearance.
100 replies are posted in a matter of just a few hours, of which 3 think that’s just great, and 97 are shocked and appalled and some are even calling for that Linden’s head on a platter.
The replies get edited down to three that favor the idea and one that opposes it, the latter being one of the most mild posts in opposition. This censorship has just turned a 97% opposition majority into a 25% opposition minority.
Moral: Don’t edit the redundant comments. It’s censorship and makes the sentiments of the residents less effectively presented.
If you MUST censor out duplicates to manage the unwiledly linear stream of this blog system, then at least be honest enough to add in a post something like “96 essentially similar posts opposing this blog entry were deleted for brevity and readability.”
And PLEASE make it possible to edit our replies! I looked that over twice before posting it, and still missed a typo. The word ‘severaly’ should be ‘severely’ in the above post.
One comment to Ceera…if they edit out the 96 additional posts against, then why would they not also edit out the 2 additional posts in favor, thereby leaving one post for and one post against?…that seems logical and would be consistent.
Natasha, I was trying to emphasize how selective editing could really skew the apparent response sentiments, making a very false impression. But even if they did edit out two of the three positive replies, leaving only one of each, pro and con, that still would reduce a 97% opposition to an ‘even match’ in opinions.
Hey, that’s not a bad idea, Ceera! Ruthing all avatars certainly would reduce the amount of “grays” out there…
Your scenario doesn’t match this one, though. The topic of this post is not “downtime” of which the majority of the comments left and removed were about. There’s another thread that Josh Linden posted which speaks to this effect: Josh’s post has over 160 replies, most on topic. The point is we want to keep the conversation on the straight and narrow and not over-edit it.
*Sticks her tongue out at Brent for his remark, then laughs*
Well, certainly, removing a bunch of “Is it up yet? Is it? Is it? When’s it coming back on-line!” replies isn’t a problem. I just wanted to warn you to be careful not to set a precident, since in other ways, such as I illustrated, deleting resident comments could be badly abused.
*Looks at herself in the mirror* “Hey! Where did my tail go? Why do I look like a newbie Human? BRENT! Come back here!”
*laughs*
Ceera, point taken, but even if the posts aren’t posted here, don’t you think that they are being read and noted by Linden staff? I think they are, otherwise how would they know they are duplicates in the first place to delete them?
Natasha, I should most certainly hope that any Linden who makes a blog entry *does* at least read and consider each reply before they contemplate deleting it. But once it has been deleted, everyone *else* only sees what that Linden chooses to allow to remain. Thus, *if abused*, such editing can be used to skew public opinion and to justify unpopular decisions, by making it appear that dissent is in the minority. How likely is it that some new contributor will chime in with “I also oppose this policy”, if there is only one dissenting opinion visible, or, worse yet, if they have SEEN dissenting opinions appear, only to be censored out later?
If the feedback is only to be for the benefit of the person making the Blog entry, and other people seeing it is not a consideration, then why post it publicly at all? Why not just use a read-only, one-way announcements forum, and insist that all replies and comments must be e-mailed to the poster privately? The purpose of publicly visible feedback is to encourage communications with people who care about the topic, just as you and I are communicating now. It also facilitates an open and honest discussion, as the tone and direction of popular opinion can more readily be assessed.
I served for several years as a forum admin in a different RP forum. I had the ability to edit or delete any posts in the section of the forums that I controlled. It was a power that the admins on that forum took very seriously, as we realized that it could be severely abused.
Please do note also that I am NOT accusing Brent or any other Linden of actually manipulating the replies to skew the apparent popularity of their desicion making. I am merely pointing out that the veracity of an environment where past replies are allowed to be deleted like that is more suspect, and is more prone to potential abuse than one in which all posts remain in the public record.
Certainly, *some* posts deserve to be deleted, or may be deleted without harm. Off-topic general chatter, obscene flame wars, exposure of private information… One can make a case for a number of things that a moderator should immediately censor as inappropriate, or which can be removed after a time without essentially taking away from the community feedback on the topic at hand.
Rather than invalidate any format–I am an active forum poster, after all :)–I believe we have a lot to gain from communication methods both (1) available on the Internet for a number of years and (2) inworld tools that noone else has done yet. And likely (3) a hybrid.
Also to be clear, this Official Linden Blog does *not* replace the forums as a whole. The Announcements & News forum specifically, yes.
For Resis starting their own topics–blog trackbacks:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trackback
They’re underused at this stage, but it’s worth keeping in mind a majority of posts on this blog are done in response to issues, questions, concerns, etc. Residents raised first. Ah, I know how new-fangled and wacky it can seem, but the more people use it… it’ll become as natural as butter on toast.
Again, it can never be overstated how much communication arrives to us that isn’t broadly visible: support emails, bug reports, Live Help IMs, and my own overstuffed email inbox, which gives me lots of ideas of what to shoot for next. I’m saying this because if I didn’t–how is anyone to know, so I like to make sure there’s no misunderstanding.
Some things are just human. People want to be heard. Noone wants to be lonely. Love is good. Corny? Heck yeah. True? Even moreso! 🙂
We definitely want to advance functionality here on the Official Linden Blog, incl. WordPress plugins for better commenting. At least the ability to preview, if not edit–spellchecker is nice, I actually use SpellBound for Firefox:
http://spellbound.sourceforge.net
A very nice extension which works with any text fields.
Thanx so much for taking the time to write here and share your thoughts+feelings. You’re helping to shape the future, and I mean this in no small way.
“Certainly, *some* posts deserve to be deleted, or may be deleted without harm. Off-topic general chatter, obscene flame wars, exposure of private information… One can make a case for a number of things that a moderator should immediately censor as inappropriate, or which can be removed after a time without essentially taking away from the community feedback on the topic at hand.”
Ceera, I think Brent made it very clear that the type of posts you mention above are the only posts that are being censored or deleted. Along with the annoying, and redundant “is the grid back up yet” posts that are akin to a 5 yr old asking, “are we there yet?” 100 times during a car trip.
I in no way am an expert on anything nor do I claim to be, I don’t have a college degree, I have not had extensive experience with forums, but some things here just seem so petty and illogical. You seem to imply that the power to moderate replies here is not being taken seriously…
“How likely is it that some new contributor will chime in with “I also oppose this policyâ€?, if there is only one dissenting opinion visible, or, worse yet, if they have SEEN dissenting opinions appear, only to be censored out later?”
Have you met the people that leave comments? 😛 They are very opinionated, including myself. And I certainly don’t make my posts based on popular opinion, and I would hope no one else does. I don’t want to jump on a bandwagon just because that is what the majority of the people are doing/saying, and that is what it seems like you are saying, that by “censoring” the comments it would limit the ability of others to make a post for or against a topic, that the visible comments of others should/would somehow influence their post, when in reality, we should be posting about the original blog topic, not on all the commentary in the comments of others.
Anyway, this is precisely why I don’t like the forums, because I don’t like debate, and ultimately Linden Labs is going to make a decision that makes sense for them and the grid overall, so someone will always be unhappy, and not get what they want. Anyway, a blog is not an opinion poll, it is a means of getting news and information out. You can comment, but it is what it is.
And people just expressing opinions and not solutions is useless anyway.
*CORRECTION*
I meant that Torley made it clear what posts would be deleted/censored.
“Many questions abound about comment moderation: not too long ago, beez Linden posted “About the blog and comments.â€?. Followup from that post is we got a good workout today moderating this thread, with 150+ comments and growing. We noticed that there were many duplicate kinds of comments like “When’s Second Life going to be back up again?â€? which are certainly heartfelt—we want the grid open ASAP for you too—but the dupes don’t add to the conversation.
So redundant comments have been removed, as have spamming and trolling remarks, because they’re unhelpful—plus, we’ve already heard them many times before and we understand! But constructive criticism that positively contributes: helping yourself, your fellow Residents, and us at Linden Lab, is warmly welcomed. “
I don’t like blogs. I’ll miss the discussion between the residents that went on in the forums very much. Despite some residents not being on their best behaviour, the forums still had lots of useful info, interesting commentary and unique discussion topics.
All we can do here is respond to what the Lindens wish to discuss today, which is often extremely dry. You can bet they won’t be throwing up a topic about Goreans and Age Players, even though those ARE interesting topics. I can’t seem to muster much enthusiasm to respond to “today’s release notes”or “Today’s known issues”. I have a blank wall to stare at home if I feel the sudden urge for that type of tedium. (No offense to those Lindens who work their butts off dealing with known issues and release notes. It just doesn’t make for fun convo most of the time is all)
I’ve never seen World of SL, i just went and had a look and it seems to be a compilation of the 27645638463 blogs about SL. It’s absolutely overwhelming. Add to that the SLEW of resident forums that seem to be cropping up and what you have is a monstrous, tangled mess of a fragmented community all over the web, and all disconnected from one another.
Anywho. Whatever. I do appreciate the fact that you’re at least aware, Torley, of why people are miffed about losing their centralized corner of the web for discussion about SL.
I have one question…can someone please tell me why are we trying to create a community outside the SL world anyway?
Seems to me that is where we should be communing and sharing ideas anyway, and most of the time it seems empty there except at the clubs, casinos, sex places and at the Ahern Welcome area, which isn’t very welcoming anymore.
What can we do to create more of a community in world rather than trying to create it in forums, blogs, sites, and the like?
Maybe there should be more Linden sponsored events at different times to accomodate different time zones…just a thought here. Then people could share ideas, talk about what bugs them, brainstorm about their ideas for Second Life, and we would all be together instead of posting to this blog. 🙂
Thanx Ingrid. I love people coming together, even when some don’t get along–that’s human nature, and I’m always looking for the sunshine. And I love celebrating the crazy wackiness that takes place in SL–but that goes on my own personal blog:
http://torley.com
but now that you’ve mentioned it, hehe… hrmmm I wonder what kind of interesting topics we could plaster on here.
Natasha, good question. The thoughtline is as follows: Second Life is increasingly opening up. All this talk of open source, open standards, being able to connect, integrate, join SL and the web better. This sort of unity. Having cool web-based gadgets that let you have easy access to what’s going on inworld, or blogging from inworld (as Ordinal Malaprop’s SLurlblogger and a growing number of devices assist with), and much, much more.
And ultimately, bring more of that inworld too–like how many hope we can browse webpages on prims!
Second Life is still comparatively small and there are many on the web who’ve not yet heard of us, who may want to join.
Do you know about our Community Roundtable Meeting, held monthly? Either 9 AM or 4 PM alternating.
http://secondlife.com/community/mailinglists.php
Meeting transcripts get posted to this blog afterwards.
http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/08/07/community-roundtable-meeting/
So maybe we oughta do a better job publicizing it.
I’d like to do a lot more in the way of socializing and meeting with Resis, but I’ve got so much on my plate right now and I know how lame it can sound to say “I’m busy’ as an excuse; at the same time I’m learning more about what it means to be human.
In all senses, happy to be here.
Natasha, I totally agree with you.
Anyway, something outside SL world is needed.
– support for people they cant access to SL for some reason
– support for grid-down-maintenance-update-laziness
– support to promotions (forums ADs work better than classifieds, and are free!!!)
So, something out-world can be usefult and helpful.
About “…I tend not to take a post as seriously when I see all that. It tells me the person just wrote their post in haste and did not even proofread it for errors…”
Hey, I’m Italian, and my english knowledge is that: I cant do more than that, for now 🙂
Then, think there is not only english mother-thongues, here 🙂 There is also people they cant read the blog or forums, because they totally doesnt understand english.
About Forum vs Blog.
I’ve never read much blogs. I’ve found boring. But I must admit that blog is not so bad. I can read often, is clear and I can use my Thunderbird to read too 🙂 (RSS forums doesnt work, instead 🙂
Natasha, and Lindens, SL is not allowable at work! As a matter of fact the Forums are labeled as a Game and Blocked as well!
I’m still new and trying to figure everything out and it helps to have access to as much info as possible, whereever I can find it. Now if I get a break at work this Blog is the only thing I’ve been able to find reffing the SL that’s not Blocked as a Game.
Is there a place I can read what is on the tutorial boards on Help Island while not in SL? Please!?!
Torley, I tried to use the email address for the community roundtable, because I’m very interested in that, but my email came back undeliverable. Please let me know how to get involved!!
And truth be told I only found out about the Roundtable because I created an avatar for the sole purpose of seeing what is going on for new players. I run a newbie network, and I so often hear how grateful they are for my service, so it makes me think, what is going on at Help Island?
I must admit, I was really disappointed with my experience at Help Island. And when I decided to leave Help Island, the point of no return, my experience got even worse! (if anyone is interested in hearing about that, look me up in world)
I think there should be an option to return to Help Island within a certain number of days, because I’ll bet you any money LOTS of people wish they could go back after they leave, they wish they had looked at all the stuff and grabbed all those notecards.
Anyway, my main disappointment there was that there were no helpers, mentors, or anyone there to help or talk to the first day, the 2nd day there was ONE mentor there. I heard a lot of people walking around talking about being lost, not knowing what to do, so imagine how they are going to feel leaving help island. The other thing was the notecards that were available, in my opinion were not very helpful, and some need to be updated, some still refer to ‘Find’ vs ‘Search’, well we all know the difference, but new players will not. Help Island is a wonderful concept, but I think it needs some ‘help’.
Also, the layout, I feel is too broad. There is no direction…maybe some giant footprints, like at zoos 😛 I’m not really a newbie, and I found it confusing to find things there. I realize that SL is an unstructured place with no objective, but people need some structure, and especially people that have no clue what they are supposed to do. That is the question I get asked most, “what do we do here?” or “how do you make money?” When people ask me what do we do here, I ask them questions, like why did you come to sl and things like that to establish a starting point. When people ask about making money, I tell them the easiest way is to be a paid member!
One thing that could be touched on at help island is the wide array of cultures and sub cultures that exist. Furries, Gorean, Vampires, just to name a few. Not to promote them, but more to let people know what they’re in store for, and to create some respect for diversity, which is lacking at times.
One thing I did like was the new choices for avatars right out of the gate. Those are great to build on while you are finding your look.
Anyway, I’ll stop rambling on. I turned my disappointment into something constructive and applied to volunteer! So hopefully I’ll be accepted.
PS. Torley, I enjoy your posts immensely, and I liked your little demonstration on how to use the blog here 😛 cute! They need to have you doing the announcements at Help Island.
^ Natasha, please forward the the full “undeliverable” email reply your got to me (torley@lindenlab.com) with headers and all, I’ll check it out! And the next Community Roundtable Meeting should be announced here on the blog too.
Glad you liked my demo… awww! 😀
About new Resi experiences, big challenges right now we’re tackling with scaling. Like, we have 3 Help Islands which are essentially clones of each other, but we can’t do it all–that’s where Resident-run ingenuity comes in. Would I love to see more diversity, both awareness and representation of it? YUPSUREYABETCHA!
Also it’s too bad you didn’t see anyone helpful your first day.
It’s very clear to me there’s lots of stray bits that need to keep updated, and to do that effectively, we have to be fast and agile (again, the spontaneity of posting here comes to mind). What I struggle with a lot is I love helping, but with 100s of issues in my tracker, I can’t do them all at once. What I do know for sure is: to keep moving, and don’t stop!
Glad you applied to volunteer too, sounds like then you can help contribute where you saw a void before. And I love that–it’s exactly why I’m here!!!
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